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EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

epa.gov

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Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s completely unfair. They would also rent the organs back to us on a subscription plan.

Step 1: steal all of the worlds IP and make a judge rule it is fair use Step 2: declare end of the Anthropocene (defined by man made influence on earth), while simultaneously accelerating mass extinction Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit?

You forgot the part where they finance this all with a never-ending pile of circular IOUs.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do the octogenarians in power not remember when they couldn’t breathe because of the lead in the gas Lead causes brain damage and memory impairment...

...and lead was standardized only because it was patentable . Otherwise ethanol was enough to achieve the same thing. Brought you proudly by Thomas Midgley, Jr., who solved science problems by making bigger ones. - https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/thomas-midgley-and-t... - https://www.ehn.org/thomas-midgley-jr-lead-poisoning

> and lead was standardized only because it was patentable

That doesn't make much sense to me. It would be more profitable to sell gasoline without lead tetraethyl because you wouldn't be forced to buy a patented product. Just pour a shot of pure grain spirit in your tank on every refill (or however much is needed).

It's more plausible that engine technology today has improved to the point that ethanol alone can eliminate knocking.

The link you provided gives more context.

> One already-known remedy was replacing a substantial proportion of the gasoline fuel with ethanol – though ethanol’s lower energy content made the engines less efficient...[General Motors and Standard Oil] claimed that ethanol – often used in automobile fuels before the war – was an unsatisfactory alternative.

and

> Unless the fuel producers themselves get into this work of investigating the properties of their fuels, there is a good chance that they may have to pay tribute to others

Translation: anti-knock compounds was a good business for Standard Oil to be in themselves. Instead of paying another company for a patented product.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government beauracracy, which provides things like democratic oversight, environmental protection, enforcing power grid standards and interoperability, construction regulations, etc? Would you rather we just didn't have those things?

All of them are good except for democratic oversight. Those other things are beneficial and cheap and easy to comply with. It's the democratic oversight of what gets built and where that is nothing more than a giveaway to worthless bureaucrats, lawyers, activists, and NIMBYs.

The alternative to democracy is wealthy guys who can buy their way into anything being done forcing their will upon the "worthless" rest of the populace, as you called them. If only billionaires weren't held up by the monsters that are activists protesting their activities and lawyers acting as a check on their legal power.

Let's be clear, democracy isn't perfect and it usually isn't fast. But to date, it's the only system that has any hope of keeping the most powerful in check. Rejecting democracy is begging for someone who doesn't care about you to tell you what's right and wrong.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be mind numbingly trivial to stand up a solar farm and ram through some transmission lines in the desert, and mind numbingly hard to set up a temporary gas generator. We needed regulatory exemptions yesterday for clean energy, public transit, and EV charging.

Oh it would be if AI actually made money. Turns out all those companies cheap out and don't actually want to put down the 20 billion for a nuclear reactor- which should be trivial if they were really the future!

They have billions of dollars, they're short on TIME.

They want computers in racks now and (rightfully imo) look at yearslong approval processes with disgust. Look at Ashburn, VA - they extract loads of money from these companies, and they keep getting investments because constructing new datacenters is easy thanks to state laws.

It's not about the money here it's about the time.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we enforced strict regulations on all generators without any exceptions at all, your sewage lift station might not have a backup source anymore. No need for the FUD. It would just mean the backup generator connected to the sewage lift station must meet emissions regulations, like in every developed country on earth. If you’re trying to say there are simply some generators that can’t meet emissions standards, I’m…

Yes, that's what we're saying. A small generator cannot meet the emissions standards of a large generator.

You’re just not trying.

There’s no reason at all that “generator” can’t be batteries rated for x hours, or a small generator that IS emissions certified.

I.e. https://www.reddit.com/r/Generator/comments/1hydy6j/recommen...

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#226
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay? That has nothing to do with what I said, what about the Biden admin helping run cover for the Gaza genocide? Was that not a case of putting profits, the military industrial complex, above people? What about when Clinton signed NAFTA and condemned swaths of the US to poverty (rustbelt is not a term of endearment)? I mean this country's founding document had carveouts for slavers and some of the first laws signed…

Whataboutism works a lot better if you don't literally start sentences with "what about..."

I didn't know it's whataboutism when you list things to support an argument, good to know.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#227
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to radicalize workers is to simply tell them what profit is.

You are not radicalized enough.

I'm at the stage where I still believe in elections + resistance.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#228

> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.

Ah, so only power generation facilities connected to the grid can pollute? fascinating.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#229
post #17
post #11

First they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power infrastructure, suddenly there's a new problem. The problem was never power or water (water being a known Chinese spy op after Karen Hao was caught exaggerating water usage by 1,000x in her book).

I'm trying to build a torment nexus and these negative ninnies complained that it used up all the electricity, so I made a machine that turns breathable air into toxic smoke to power the nexus and they don't like that ether!

US emissions are down dramatically per capita since 2000. From 2024 to 2026, green energy sources were 96.6% of new capacity coming online.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#230
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh it would be if AI actually made money. Turns out all those companies cheap out and don't actually want to put down the 20 billion for a nuclear reactor- which should be trivial if they were really the future!

They have billions of dollars, they're short on TIME. They want computers in racks now and (rightfully imo) look at yearslong approval processes with disgust. Look at Ashburn, VA - they extract loads of money from these companies, and they keep getting investments because constructing new datacenters is easy thanks to state laws. It's not about the money here it's about the time.

> They want computers in racks now and (rightfully imo) look at yearslong approval processes with disgust.

Disgust of the rules for me but not for thee? The rest of us have to follow the rules, but not them.

How about disgust for actual pollution? They could build clean, quiet and fast if "> It's not about the money it's about the time"

It doesn't add up, like at all.

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