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Sovereign Tech Agency invests €500k in Flatpak

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Re: Sovereign Tech Agency invests €500k in Flatpak

#141
post #98

Dunno why people try to push app isolation on Linux desktop. It'd be better and more comfortable to make task/workspace isolation easier. You have all your apps installed system wide as usual, and you isolate processes in sandbox per your current task. Isolating individual apps and having to deal with permission prompts and protals, and persistence of permissions is uh, not very user friendly anyway. Feels like this…

> ... and you isolate processes in sandbox per your current task. Oh is that all? If you start writing up the requirements to make that happen (without permission prompts and portals, right?), I think you'll find that would be even more difficult than app isolation and have even more backward compatibility issues.

Actually I use that approach daily and it has very few usability issues, at least in my mostly terminal based workflow. GUI apps show me environment to which they belong in the title bar. Happy with that.

Can't imagine how per-app isolation would even work for me. Sounds like something inspired from android world where there's no such thing as having the same app run mutliple times on different workspaces/windows, etc. and the usability correspondingly suffers.

Portal thing even bit me recently. I leave dbus and window manager socket in the sandbox, so I can use GUI apps without too much trouble, and a few months back firefox started showing me files from outside the sandbox and hiding files in the sandbox in file save dialog, which confused the hell out of me, until I found out someone decided to add a remote file access via some dbus service or whatever. Dangerous. I had to remove dbus socket sharing completely from the sandbox at some inconvenience.

Re: Sovereign Tech Agency invests €500k in Flatpak

#142
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have bad news for you: The flatpak developers plan to stop using bubblewrap. They say it is no longer necessary because most distros now support unprivileged user namespaces. https://youtu.be/NsVhkz2Xl0E?si=-ypxvTlRukCZLql9

Bubblewrap is a CLI interface for these, you know? It's been some time since bwrap recommended avoiding their SUID wrapper.

From my knowledge its a yes and no. One of the "benefits" of bwrap was that it was a SUID binary and thus maximised compatibility with systems that disabled unprivileged user namespaces. With that barrier gone you can implement a more tailored sandbox to the usecase instead of working around limitations in bwrap. Like, all things considered, bubblewrap as a whole isn't that much code (quick check seems like ~6k LOC) and does somewhat limit the API you can work with.

Re: Sovereign Tech Agency invests €500k in Flatpak

#143
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like €40,000-50,000 after taxes and contributions to health care, social security and the German pension fund. Enough for a modest lifestyle in Germany. Many OSS contributors aren't motivated by money after all.

We're both wrong, it's 38.646,02€ Go to https://www.nettolohn.de and enter 64000€, choose Berlin, keep the rest. That's not enough for a modest lifestyle for a family, proven by the fact that with such an income, you're already entitled for social benefits (Wohngeld) in an average German city of 200.000 inhabitants for a family of 4: https://www.wohngeld.org/einkommen/#Wohngeldtabellen_fuer_Mi... This is the governme…

> We're both wrong, it's 38.646,02€

Assuming you don't pay Kirchensteuer, it's almost €40,000.

> you're already entitled for social benefits (Wohngeld)

No, you're slightly above the threshold but in any case this doesn't say much. If you're talking about families, I'd also assume that your partner earns a little extra.

Anyway, the median gross income in Germany is €54,000, so you seem to be implying that the majority of Germans are unable to live a decent life. Maybe you should talk more to people outside your social bubble?

Re: Sovereign Tech Agency invests €500k in Flatpak

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also just hard to make breaking changes on Linux. Apple can declare something is changing and you have 1 year to get with the program. In Linux you have to bargain and plead with devs over 10 years to change something. Restricting an app to not have file system access is a breaking change. It would have been dead in the water if they didn’t meet half way and make file system access an optional permission.

Apple has much better backwards compatibility than Linux. The APIs haven't changed much since the Carbon->Cocoa transition 25 years ago, and SwiftUI (but that's optional). The impact of app sandboxing on developers was small - and sandboxing is universal on macOS now, there are only different levels of sandboxing but no such thing as unsandboxed apps anymore. Apple's introduction of sandboxing to an app ecosystem des…

>macOS is the most secure desktop OS by a long way, it's not even close.

GrapheneOS has become a desktop OS (because of all the work Google has done to adapt Android for desktop/laptop use) and its security exceeds macOS's.

You can connect a Pixel 8, 9, 10 or 11 to a USB-C DisplayPort-alt-mode hub and have a GrapheneOS desktop that way. In a few months, you might be able run GrapheneOS on a Googlebook.

Aside from that I agree with your comment, particularly your assertion that "Linux trails far behind" macOS in security.

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