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Get your Windows license refund

en.refund4freedom.org

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Re: Get your Windows license refund

#201

Post by TheRealPomax »

neallindsay wrote: post #185

I also raised an eyebrow at "the vast majority of laptops are only sold with a specific proprietary operating system: Microsoft Windows", but after looking at some estimates it seems legit. Probably only about 1 in 10 laptops is a Mac. Software developers really just live in a different world than normal people. It got me thinking though: what is a laptop? People probably count Chromebooks, and that seems fair. Is a…

A laptop is whatever uses a rigid clamshell form factor with a screen that folds down over the keyboard. A screen with a flippy floppy detachable keyboard is not that, so:

- A chrome book is a laptop, it uses the laptop form factor.

- A Steamdeck is not a laptop. It does not use the laptop form factor.

- An iPad is not a laptop. It does not use the laptop form factor out of the box, it needs peripherals to even pretend to be one.

- A surface Pro is also not a laptop, but the Surface Laptop is. Just "having a flippy floppy magnetic keyboard pre-bundled with it" doesn't make a tablet a laptop. Having a rigid clamshell design makes it a laptop.

And yes, that makes the Asus Zenbook a laptop, because it is. It just has the circuitry in the screen instead of the base. Hell, Asus literally calls them laptops themselves.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#202

Post by gorjusborg »

forinti wrote: post #98
haute_cuisine wrote: post #69

It's unfair that apple gets an easy pass on this, as well as any mobile device.

I reckon Apple buyers are more interested in the OS than in the hardware, in general.

I buy Apple products because the holistic product is the best. I say this begrudgingly, because I do not like MacOS from the user interface side.

If I could run linux on Apple hardware and get the same power-sipping performance, that's what I'd be doing.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#203

Post by [deleted] »

Telaneo wrote: post #97
blaze33 wrote: post #75

In 2011 I got a 143€ reimbursement from Dell for an E6420 laptop that I had bought for 910€. Maybe I got lucky but I called the customer service, told the lady I did not agree with the Windows license terms, fully ready to argue my case and she just went "oh, ok, let me just edit a new invoice and wire you the money for Windows plus the Antivirus plus etc.". Which was extra nice because I had no idea I was in fact ch…

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dell probably had standing orders to not bother to argue with someone who wanted a reimbursement for Windows, and just get it over with. If you care enough to want that, you care enough to argue your case and make life a hassle for everyone if Dell refuses. To even ask the question is a shibboleth that instantly marks you as someone on the edge of the bell curve. I also have a similar…

[deleted]

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#204

Post by bbarn »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #70
haute_cuisine wrote: post #69

It's unfair that apple gets an easy pass on this, as well as any mobile device.

Apple doesn't pay to ship macOS on its devices.

Because they don't license it for and support it running on millions of different combinations of models, hardware, etc. MacOS can be clean only because it has such limited scope of what it has to handle compared to windows/linux

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#205

Post by BeetleB »

cortesoft wrote: post #198
BeetleB wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a reasonable expectation. I may be of a different age, but in my time it was common to buy computers without any OS pre-installed. It was on you to install one (from CD, floppy, whatever). Of course, vendors selling PCs often also sold OS's...

This is still the case. You can absolutely buy computers without an OS, but most people don't want that so they aren't quite as easy to find. Here is an HP without an OS: https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-001E-4UPC7 If you want something that most other people don't want, it is going to be a little harder to find. That isn't a conspiracy, that is just life.

Yes, it may take some work these days. I was addressing the claim that it's "not a reasonable expectation" with a pretty poor rationale provided. The rationale applied equally well in the 80's and 90's, and no one then said "It's unreasonable to sell without an OS."

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#206

Post by JoshTriplett »

whalesalad wrote: post #181
jonathanberger wrote: post #174

> Consumers should have the right to decline pre-installed software As a consumer I should also have the right to free ice cream and a pony ride. Many of us have tried to start or run businesses small or large. Does it make any sense for a government to start telling us what software the business should use or not use? Consumers already have the right to decline pre-installed software: don't buy the laptop. There, yo…

This is such a boomer coded 'deal with it' take. The manufacturer is going to charge you a premium for the software license. If you never intend to use that license, it's completely reasonable to think that we could live in a world where you could uncheck a box and avoid that altogether.

Unfortunately, in practice most PC vendors get paid to bundle a giant pile of bloatware/malware/adware on the system, and they eagerly accept those payments because PCs are a low-margin business. So if your refund actually represented the amount the vendor spent, you'd end up paying them more to have a system without Windows.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#208

Post by braingravy »

lukan wrote: post #177
karlgkk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were fine without it, we can still be fine without it. Nothing is stopping you from buying an mp3 player, a small point and shoot, and running Linux on a 12 in ultra portable.

Why would I want 3 or more devices, when I want one device capable of it all and under my control?

[dead]

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#209

Post by janalsncm »

supernikio2 wrote: post #105
gwbas1c wrote: post #76

Seems like it makes a lot more sense to buy a computer without Windows preinstalled. > Device manufacturers and vendors should not impose an operating system or software on consumers This is not a reasonable expectation. Hardware needs software to work, and software runs on an operating system. You can't expect every vendor in the work of every kind of product you can buy to offer you a slightly different version tha…

The key word here is "impose". I can imagine a world where at time of purchase you would select which OS (if any) you would want pre-installed on the machine. Even a checkbox for Yes/No Windows would be an improvement.

I’d imagine the choice would be

Windows (+$120)

Linux ($0)

DIY ($0)

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#210

Post by [deleted] »

terribleperson wrote: post #196
karlgkk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were fine without it, we can still be fine without it. Nothing is stopping you from buying an mp3 player, a small point and shoot, and running Linux on a 12 in ultra portable.

Lots of things are stopping me. Like needing a smartphone to read a menu at a restaurant, or replace a lost credit card.

[deleted]
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