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Get your Windows license refund

en.refund4freedom.org

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Re: Get your Windows license refund

#151

Post by [deleted] »

pineaux wrote: post #121
vel0city wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then people go to Best Buy and see there's a model on the shelf that looks to be the exact same but its $60 cheaper, so they buy that and then realize they have no idea what to do with it so I guess this brand of laptop just sucks, Macs don't have that problem I guess I'll just buy those instead.

Apple should also be forced to allow the user freedom to choose at least one other OS. But maybe thats too much to ask. I think it's not too much too ask, but I am probably an outlier. Dont start about Asahi please. I know it exists.

[deleted]

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#152

Post by BeetleB »

tredre3 wrote: post #147
BeetleB wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a reasonable expectation. I may be of a different age, but in my time it was common to buy computers without any OS pre-installed. It was on you to install one (from CD, floppy, whatever). Of course, vendors selling PCs often also sold OS's...

Expectations change over time. But I also believe your recollection is erroneous or must differ by region because I was there as early as the 80s and computers sold without an operating system weren't common. If you were buying a PC clone in the 90s you could buy it without the Windows license, of course, but the default was to include it. Even before PCs, computers typically shipped with BASIC, which was their opera…

> Even before PCs, computers typically shipped with BASIC, which was their operating system of sort.

Sure. In the 80's, all the IBM PC compatibles I dealt with shipped with BASIC in their ROM. But I don't think they charged a licensing fee for it.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#153

Post by Joel_Mckay »

Barbing wrote: post #124
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always, Microsoft lingers like a fart in an elevator on some laptops. =3 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/windows-itpro-blog/...

“Note: Affected third-party OS includes MacOS. However, it's outside the scope of Microsoft support. For Linux systems dual booting with Windows, Windows will update the certificates that Linux relies on.” macOS users out of luck?

Some had to do a manual firmware/BIOS update. ymmv =3

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#154

Post by shevy-java »

The last laptops I bought had no operating system pre-installed other than some DOS variant or something like that. I installed Linux on them. So, not that I have anything against the website mentioned, I think people who want to avoid Windows, already can do so. The bigger issue I see is that people are often not very computer-savvy, in particular the older generation; the younger generation often knows how to handle computers better, to some extent (yes, even smartphone-only folks). For the elderly, Linux is way too complicated. And it wasn't really simplified sufficiently.

I do wonder whether AI may change that. Now, I don't think so, and I hate AI, but have a look at Omarchy from DHH. Personally I would not use it for many reasons (including the fact that DHH goes on my nerves), but IF the underlying rationale is that people can use Linux in an extremely simplified manner, then this is a good thing.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#155

Post by tredre3 »

pineaux wrote: post #121
vel0city wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then people go to Best Buy and see there's a model on the shelf that looks to be the exact same but its $60 cheaper, so they buy that and then realize they have no idea what to do with it so I guess this brand of laptop just sucks, Macs don't have that problem I guess I'll just buy those instead.

Apple should also be forced to allow the user freedom to choose at least one other OS. But maybe thats too much to ask. I think it's not too much too ask, but I am probably an outlier. Dont start about Asahi please. I know it exists.

Okay we force Apple to give the consumer freedom to choose at least one other OS. But none other exists, so what should Apple do? Create a second operating system themselves to give the illusion of choice? Be forced to bankroll an independent team such as Asahi (which you don't seem to consider valid)?

It seems to me that you are asking too much.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#156

Post by shevy-java »

blaze33 wrote: post #75

In 2011 I got a 143€ reimbursement from Dell for an E6420 laptop that I had bought for 910€. Maybe I got lucky but I called the customer service, told the lady I did not agree with the Windows license terms, fully ready to argue my case and she just went "oh, ok, let me just edit a new invoice and wire you the money for Windows plus the Antivirus plus etc.". Which was extra nice because I had no idea I was in fact ch…

[dead]

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#157

Post by shevy-java »

boplicity wrote: post #96
blaze33 wrote: post #75

In 2011 I got a 143€ reimbursement from Dell for an E6420 laptop that I had bought for 910€. Maybe I got lucky but I called the customer service, told the lady I did not agree with the Windows license terms, fully ready to argue my case and she just went "oh, ok, let me just edit a new invoice and wire you the money for Windows plus the Antivirus plus etc.". Which was extra nice because I had no idea I was in fact ch…

I am seriously saddened by the complete takeover of mobile computing by Apple and Google. There is no freedom on your own device to choose your own software, except inside the very narrow constraints allowed.

That's what de-facto monopolies do.

What is more surprising is that competitors do not arise. Democracies in general have totally messed this up. The USA should be fined for exerting a monopoly onto other countries. And then fined for penalising US customers with that monopoly at home.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#158

Post by wellthisisgreat »

Brendinooo wrote: post #99
wellthisisgreat wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really curious how many people run this kind of skin unironically. Unironically here means they’d actively seek out to make their desktop OS look… 30 years old? No shade at all, just curios. I def have all kinds of warm feelings towards the moment I first installed W ‘95 but wow I can’t imagine having that UX as my daily OS today.

I don't run this kind of skin unironically but I do think that desktop GUIs used to be a lot more intuitive in some ways. They were still educating PC users on how to use PCs and so there was less of a temptation to hide features and smooth things out for the sake of pure aesthetics. (The slide-to-unlock on the original iPhone OS comes to mind as an analogy on the phone: babies could figure it out, but by iOS 7 they…

I absolutely agree that the interfaces up until 2005s and, in case of Mac, early 2010s or so were better in terms of usability, but somehow it’s hard to imagine coming back there from the modern UIs with all their shadows and transparencies and such.

There has to be a middle ground somewhere in this.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#159

Post by shevy-java »

AnodicElegy wrote: post #108

I switched two of my PCs over to Linux Mint last week. The automatic driver support is shockingly good compared to when I last installed Linux on a PC (almost 20 years ago). It even found a driver for the random no-name USB wireless receiver I bought on Amazon, whereas I had to install that driver manually on Windows. Part of my motivation was that one of the machines was still on Windows 7, but more than anything it…

Good that you decided to do the move. Often any existing problem on Linux has already been solved by someone; it may just take a while when you find a solution. In that case I also recommend to make local notes. I do so since +20 years. Some of those local notes helped me many years later.

Re: Get your Windows license refund

#160

Post by schoen »

I was part of an event called "Windows Refund Day" in 1999 (I think) to draw attention to this issue. We had a march to a Microsoft office to ask for refunds (unsuccessfully). It was fun, but it's 27 years later and it's still a problem.

Edit: it's covered on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Refund_Day

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