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EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

epa.gov

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Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#51

Post by cucumber3732842 »

MisterTea wrote: post #21
tastyfreeze wrote: post #10

Hmm... rules for thee but not for me. Sounds like the beginning of the end for the EPA. Two tiered rules breed resentment. There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Making exceptions just makes it easier to argue the EPA is useless or just a tool for oppressing the little guy.

> There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Rich assholes who are upset they can't throw their trash on the ground. Anyone else is parroting propaganda generated by said rich assholes.

>Rich assholes who are upset they can't throw their trash on the ground. Anyone else is parroting propaganda generated by said rich assholes.

Yeah, that guy who owns a liquor store on 7-mil and can't make the $100k underground stormwater treatment it would take to pave his dirt parking lot pencil out and that city in the rust belt who saw a major manufacturer pack up and leave for a desert state because environmental compliance precluded expanding their site, all their grievances are illegitimate, they're just simping for billionares and BigCos who wanna dump crap in the river.

People looking down their nose and categorically denying that there is collateral damage when you wave the wand of legislation is a large part of how the current populist got elected.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#52

Post by mixdup »

0xy wrote: post #11

First they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power infrastructure, suddenly there's a new problem. The problem was never power or water (water being a known Chinese spy op after Karen Hao was caught exaggerating water usage by 1,000x in her book).

The environmental impacts of how that power is generated is not a sudden or new concern, it was a concern even if the power was delivered via the grid or not and the fact that the power is generated on site or whatever does not alleviate that concern

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#53

Post by sailfast »

mixdup wrote: post #35
tastyfreeze wrote: post #10

Hmm... rules for thee but not for me. Sounds like the beginning of the end for the EPA. Two tiered rules breed resentment. There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Making exceptions just makes it easier to argue the EPA is useless or just a tool for oppressing the little guy.

>There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA And those people are the ones making these bifurcated rules undermining the EPA. The destruction is the purpose, it's not incidental

Correct. The people that don’t like the EPA appointed their friends who also don’t like the EPA to run the EPA.

This is the playbook generally - PE vulturism, but for government agencies. And to their credit it kinda works. Just… not for citizens of the country they have sworn to protect.

Currently in progress at GSA, OPM, CFPB (for a decade+), Interior, EPA, labor, education… Nevermind I should’ve started with an exclusion list instead.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#54

Post by dukeofdoom »

rc_mob wrote: post #47
dukeofdoom wrote: post #38

Its for the greater good. Net benefit would still be in data centers favour, as AI replaces useless office workers, it will lower carbon footprint of all those people commuting by car / needing to work in cities. More people living in nature in the country side, doing something productive in the new economy, growing their food. Just invest in banks, to ride out the transition.

None of what you say is true to real life

AI is making working from home much easier than ever before. You don't really need to live in a city to have a tech career now, and it will accelerate. We don't really need so many office workers going forward in cities. Almost anything they decide to do instead, will more productive in the economy than being a useless cubicle monkey thats no longer needed because AI can do it better.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#55

Post by browningstreet »

shimman wrote: post #27
wilburx3 wrote: post #24

What a disgrace. Abysmal leadership in this country.

This seems pretty inline with our leadership tho. This country has always put profits above people.

Go research the green house gas emission projections for the end of Biden's term and the projections for Trump's administration.

Hand-waving dismissiveness doesn't serve when there were, in fact, significant (and yet not sufficient) efforts written into law.

We can have better things, but we as a people certainly need to do better. There are Mamdanis and there are Trumps. There's a difference.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#56

Post by iso1631 »

wilburx3 wrote: post #24

What a disgrace. Abysmal leadership in this country.

This is exactly what the leadership wanted. And as they won the election. Not like in 2016 (where more people voted for the other guy but they won due to the difference in power of votes), or in 2020 (where they lost), they won a clear outright victory, it's exactly what the USA wanted.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#57

Post by cucumber3732842 »

techpression wrote: post #48
pyrophane wrote: post #37

> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.

Pretty insane, expect data center to be data center + coal power plant soon, why bother with generators or the pesky local grid.

If coal doesn't pencil out economically for the grid it still likely won't pencil out economically for data centers even if you remove some of the compliance stuff.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#59

Post by m4ck_ »

0xy wrote: post #11

First they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power infrastructure, suddenly there's a new problem. The problem was never power or water (water being a known Chinese spy op after Karen Hao was caught exaggerating water usage by 1,000x in her book).

>The problem was never power or water

Correct. The problem isn't just data centers or power or water, it's that left unchecked these greedy people will risk the power grid, drain rivers/reservoirs/aquifers, and destroy our natural environment (and cities) with pollution because it's more profitable than doing things the right way. I think more than anything we want responsible, friendly neighbors who are mindful of the impact they have in the areas where they operate.

They're callous, reckless, have no concern for anything but their money. And "self-funded" isn't even true, the tax breaks and negative externalities of these data centers will be paid by the people (see: xAI and Memphis.)

inb4 i'm a chinese operative because I mentioned water. Get bent, I think grass farmers in the desert should be forced to get real jobs instead of exporting our water to China/Saudi Arabia as cattle feed. And people who farm real crops should be forced to convert to less water-intensive methods or shut down.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#60

Post by andsoitis »

cmiles74 wrote: post #44
user00005 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. This seems like a pretty straight-forward clarification of current law. The current thread title (OP said taken from Reuters) saying this side-steps the law seems misleading.

Are they clarifying? It reads to me like they are making up an exception for data centers out of thin air.

In what way do you think the guidance is in contradiction to the law?
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