Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

That's a Lot of YAML

noyaml.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 78 posts

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#51

Post by ishouldnotbutk8 »

Ctrl+F "KYAML", 0 results

I think KYAML[1] is very relevant here. KYAML is a strict subset of yaml[2], supported natively by kubernetes tooling in most recent versions.

In my opinion it's closer to JSON with comments than to YAML, but overall it looks like a pretty nice format, that solves some of pain points of both technologies. This is not the first nor the only JSON-with-comments format, so I wonder if it manages to break out of kubernetes world and become popular.

[1] https://kubernetes.io/blog/2026/08/11/how-to-pretty-print-ku...

[2] https://www.kubernetes.dev/resources/keps/5295/

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#52

Post by masfoobar »

My usage of YAML has been limited. For the times I have used it (kubenetes, docker compose, other things, etc) -- I don't get what it so special about it.

It just seems reinventing the wheel again and again.

I am not suggesting JSON is perfect, either. However I do prefer it to YAML (and XML) by a mile.

It's a shame s-expressions never taken off.

  (select (id name)
    (:from users)
    (:where (= name "Peter")))
Or

  (orders
    (order
      (id 1)
      (code "aa1")
      (qty 32)))
I know - its a sample, but you get it. :-)

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#53

Post by feelamee »

fodkodrasz wrote: post #47
dghf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect?

> YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. > So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Given YAML is not a subset, but a superset of JSON, as you correctly noted, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. > Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect? I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: htt…

He misspelled subset/superset, but the idea with streaming is right.

Given: - YAML support streaming - any JSON is valid YAML

Conclusion - any JSON is streaming

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#54

Post by feelamee »

fodkodrasz wrote: post #47
dghf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect?

> YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. > So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Given YAML is not a subset, but a superset of JSON, as you correctly noted, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. > Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect? I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: htt…

I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference

See Examples section.

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#55

Post by ishouldnotbutk8 »

Diti wrote: post #14
fodkodrasz wrote: post #3

There is no problem with YAML, just like there was no problem with XML at all. The problem is with the software devs who use it for the wrong thing. I just wonder why JSON doesn't get all the hate, while it is a terrible format also: it is not streamable (YAML is), it doesn't have comments... and non-standard workarounds are used for these features. Norway better than YAML, in my opinion.

I also wonder why it’s the 2012 version of the language which gets all the hate, instead of the hate being directed at Google, who doesn’t care about putting resources towards updating the main offender, Kubernetes’ YAML 1.1 parser. https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/issues/34146#issuec...

Wouldn't this be a backwards compatibility nightmare? All of the unexpected parses from this blog post suddenly change behaviour?

Google put forward KYAML recently (https://www.kubernetes.dev/resources/keps/5295/), it looks like a more sane way forward.

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#56

Post by feelamee »

cheptsov wrote: post #16
embedding-shape wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDN? Probably too flexible from some perspectives. No surprise Norways though.

That’s the problem people IMO don’t understand - flexibility is one of many requirements; simplicity and ecosystem around are two more. Hating YAML is same as being childish - yo using like something but can’t come up with anything better. Worse than YAML can be only complaining about YAML. Hating YAML is a cliche. Its much easier to come up with jokes like this website than to change the ecosystem for better. And I…

> Worse than YAML can be only complaining about YAML. Hating YAML is a cliche.

Its cliche for you, but not all people know about YAML problems.

If it is not interesting for you and people who already know about this, why open this thread?

Let people explore something new, if they are interested in it.

> Its much easier to come up with jokes like this website than to change the ecosystem for better.

Speaking about problems is also valuable. The more people know about them, the more chance of a solution.

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#59

Post by feelamee »

7bit wrote: post #50
fypanto wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should get your mind out of the gutter then.

Between us two I am not the one using personal attacks. I advise you to reflect upon your own words.

between us three, I am considering your comments as political propaganda against Norway. And this is off topic here.

So, I advise you, guys, to reflect upon your words.

Re: That's a Lot of YAML

#60

Post by bartread »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #27

I think a format that relies so heavily on invisible characters is terrible, but thats just me.

I used to think the same but I've mellowed.

Modern editors make this a non-issue. I use both Python and YAML fairly regularly, both have significant whitespace, and I don't have any issues with either.

Also, because YAML doesn't involve things like curly braces all over the place, it's actually notably less friction to type rapidly by hand than something like JSON. I don't think YAML is amazing or anything like that but I do find myself nowadays preferring it, for config at any rate, over JSON.

JSON definitely wins for machine readable data sent over a pipe though because the lack of significant whitespace means it'll compress better.

Post reply on HN