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Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

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Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#221

Post by Gud »

awruko wrote: post #220
Gud wrote: post #209

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm…

from personal experience in swiss system, I always forget to swipe left. Less personal experience: there is also a bit of a stress with swiping right and hopping on the train. If for whatever reason there is a delay (location, network), and you get checked on the train you will pay a fine.

I typically swipe at home before leaving and leave the automatic swipe off, on. Otherwise I swipe off at my desk at the office.

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#222

Post by Gud »

soco wrote: post #219
Gud wrote: post #209

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm…

True, the Swiss is the simplest way around - and in planning is to activate it even without swiping (I'm not sure I remember details): But let's face it the tap system is not that far behind, because in some implementations it can do that calculation by itself (I believe having seen it in London?) so at the end of the day you end up paying the optimal price.

The problem is that the tap in/tap off is an unnecessary inconvenience. I often travel with suitcases(always on the road for my work) and it's a pain in the ass sometimes due to the mechanism in my way.

Why should I have to fiddle with some card, just to verify I've paid? Every day, for the rest of my life?

I prefer the Swiss way, where there are random checks. These random checks are done everywhere else anyway. It just seems that these boundaries have been put in place because some people believe that they are necessary. They may be necessary in some locations(London, like you mentioned) but I doubt they are necessary in Japan.

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#223

Post by pscanf »

Gud wrote: post #209

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm…

I can see how for a local this system might be better, but as a tourist I strongly prefer the tap in/tap out system, especially if I can just use my credit card.

I used the SBB app a few times, and it's actually very good, but it's still an "app experience". First, I need to set it up (download, login, add payment method), for which I need an internet connection (which I might not have as soon as I enter the country). Then, every time I need to purchase a ticket I need to open the app and figure out how to do what I need to.

Tapping in and out is superior in my view, even though I might end up overpaying a bit (though I'm probably still paying much less than what I'd pay in Switzerland :D ).

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#224

Post by miki123211 »

The chips in these cards are a perfect example of a computer you own but don't control, and when that's a good thing.

The only reason fast transit cards work is that the chips on them are under control of the transit agency, and designed in a way that makes it impossible for the card owner to hack in and modify the balance. If somebody finds a fundamental flaw in Suica, I suspect things will get pretty interesting indeed.

If you tried to implement Suica with cards where the card owner had full control, you would have to do this with asymmetric keys, cryptographic signatures, and a round trip to the server for every transaction.

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#226

Post by Gud »

pscanf wrote: post #223
Gud wrote: post #209

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm…

I can see how for a local this system might be better, but as a tourist I strongly prefer the tap in/tap out system, especially if I can just use my credit card. I used the SBB app a few times, and it's actually very good, but it's still an "app experience". First, I need to set it up (download, login, add payment method), for which I need an internet connection (which I might not have as soon as I enter the country)…

Ok, even as a tourist I prefer not to have to fiddle with my card on every ride. I can't comprehend how people can prefer the tap in/tap off. Seems like another unnecessary inconvenience in life to me. Additionally, SBB offers many different ways of purchasing tickets in the app(week ticket, 24 hour pass, etc, etc).

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#227

Post by Shank »

nihonde wrote: post #208
Tor3 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used a Suica card for many years now. I agree it's both fast and reliable. One summer I was crisscrossing Tokyo by train over several days, using the Suica card, so I got to see a LOT of commuters. Lots of people were in a hurry and would run through the gates (the default state is open, it closes quickly if your card is out of funds or some other problem). Running through the gates while quickly touching the ca…

For a long time in Japan, the physical cards were limited because of IC inventory shortage. There was a big push to get people to use their phones during this time. Also, travelers beware: some of the special "Suica" sold at Haneda (and maybe Narita, too?) expires and is completely dead after 30 days, even if it has a balance. I found this out the hard way. Buy a proper Suica at Shinagawa or another non-airport stati…

That’s the red “Welcome Suica”. Green or any other IC card at any other location like ICOCA don’t expire functionally ever. The stated time on some cards is 10 years since last use, but they’re practically infinite in that they can be used even after this point.

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#228

Post by mi_lk »

pknomad wrote: post #57
cptcobalt wrote: post #20

If you haven’t experienced suica, it’s like magically fast. Faster than NFC, faster than Apple Pay, faster than tap to pay, faster than Disney magic bands, faster than your work badge. It absolutely floored me every time I used it in Japan and it’s a full payment transaction.

It's not only magically fast, but it's super useful. You can use it at vending machines + convenience stores anywhere (unless it's one of those old ones that only take cash/coins and print paper tickets) and at the shops as well. People not in Japan/Singapore/Korea/China should experience what a proper transit card done looks like.

Just came back from Singapore and their transit card is the normal kind you’ll find in big cities in the west

Only Japan is on another level

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#229

Post by gkanai »

speak_plainly wrote: post #15

Sad to see the mascot going in March. Apparently this entire brand reset is tied to something JR East is calling 'Suica Renaissance,' which is about a ten-year effort to turn Suica into a lifestyle brand. Whitepaper: https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/press/2024/pdf/20241210.pdf They're planning on moving beyond the ¥20,000 prepaid balance limit, they are adding QR code payments (think WeChat and Alipay), making Suica work a…

＞how paper-money-driven Japan is.

JFYI, over 50% of payments in Japan in 2026 are digital now. So not as high as other markets but certainly much less paper money than pre-pandemic.

https://www.meti.go.jp/english/press/2026/0331_005.html

Re: Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

#230

Post by pjc50 »

daremocooon wrote: post #160

I live in Tokyo and use my Suica almost every day. Suica is very convenient because it makes entering station gates very smooth. I have a question: how do people enter stations in cities outside of Japan? I have never been outside of Japan, so I was curious.

Most countries have a similar system in the most popular places. London Oyster may be technically not as fast but it's the same basic experience.

The challenge in the UK is getting tap-to-pay through bank cards onto all the little local bus operators.

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