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Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

aphantasia.com

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Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#361

Post by inigyou »

nikkaelle wrote: post #163

I have mild visual aphantasia in that I by default do not picture an image for something like the ball test, but instead have something between a concept and a wireframe or flat boxy rendering of it. When pressed for details I can fill those in and form a reasonably vivid mental image, but it is not by any means the default. However, I have almost hyperphantasia for audio. I can hear near perfect recreations of the s…

Hm, same for me, although my margin for error on how well I know this is now very wide thanks to this thread. I did think I had below average visual phantasia and I get songs stuck in my head all the time. I also read by imagining a voice (I guess my own idealised voice, not what I actually sound like).

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#362

Post by inigyou »

srcreigh wrote: post #235

Do any other aphantasia folks have the experience of like, that one time they saw a very vivid image, but it only ever happened once for a short time? That happened to me a few years ago. It was a very interesting experience. It’s surefire subjective proof that aphantasia is real - the image I saw was so vivid and colorful, even animated. I can say for sure that I almost never have that experience. At the same time,…

People have commented this a few times in this rather long thread.

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#363

Post by dtkav »

nomel wrote: post #314
techgnosis wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the naysayers denying aphantasia in the comments. Why would we default to believing people, though? I get your point. Believe people when they tell you their experience. Sure, that seems like a reasonable thing to do. But in this case, when there is zero evidence besides a self-reported experience, why do we default to believing that there are suddenly two types of people, instead of assuming that semantic…

> zero evidence besides a self-reported experience There are clear differences in brain scans [1]. [1] https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2025/01/mind-blindness...

Also differences in pupil dilation when asked to imagine scenes [0].

[0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9018072/

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#364

Post by inigyou »

imzadi wrote: post #106
LordGrey wrote: post #100

There is a section titled "What's It Like To Visualize?" that provides instructions for creating a temporary after-image, then claims: > This afterimage illusion, while a product of perception, serves as a bridge to understanding visualization. For those with aphantasia, it's a rare opportunity to "see" what visualization might be like for some visualizers. Is that really what it is like for those of you who can visu…

Not for me. My memories, fantasies, thoughts just look like movies. If I get deep into thought it takes over my whole perception and I don't see the world around me at all. Kind of scary when I get home from work and realize I was lost in thought and can't remember the drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#365

Post by D-Machine »

inigyou wrote: post #340
D-Machine wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have always suspected that people with “aphantasia” simply misunderstand the idea of a “mind’s eye,” believing that others can somehow visualize something in their actual field of vision at will. Many people can do precisely this, though the projected image is not usually 100% clear in some form, i.e. it may have a translucence or impermanence, and it can indeed take some practice to develop this skill. But it is…

Tell me you can still tell it's two separate layers though. You aren't actually getting visual feedback, you are combining the actual visual feedback from your eyeballs with the pseudo-visual feedback from your imagination. I would say when I do this, it's more like underlaying my imagination with reality, than overlaying reality with imagination - the combination is still clearly imaginative. Right? (I think I'm a 3…

I can almost always tell the projection and reality are different, but in some very rare and extreme cases (psychedelics, sleep deprivation, extremely protracted and deliberate meditative focus / practice, or e.g. in situations where the projection is properly aligned with the actual stimuli, like seeing a face in the clouds, or in vivid / lucid dreams), the differences can be so small that what allows you to distinguish the two can simply be knowledge of the will / effort involved or e.g. knowledge from laws of physics that what is visualized cannot be present, or, in the case of dreams, an inconsistency with autobiographical memory.

Otherwise, yes, in almost all other cases, I suspect our experiences aren't that much different.

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#366

Post by nomel »

inigyou wrote: post #340
D-Machine wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have always suspected that people with “aphantasia” simply misunderstand the idea of a “mind’s eye,” believing that others can somehow visualize something in their actual field of vision at will. Many people can do precisely this, though the projected image is not usually 100% clear in some form, i.e. it may have a translucence or impermanence, and it can indeed take some practice to develop this skill. But it is…

Tell me you can still tell it's two separate layers though. You aren't actually getting visual feedback, you are combining the actual visual feedback from your eyeballs with the pseudo-visual feedback from your imagination. I would say when I do this, it's more like underlaying my imagination with reality, than overlaying reality with imagination - the combination is still clearly imaginative. Right? (I think I'm a 3…

For me, when I'm really concentrating, the imagined becomes more dominant.

I like to do mechanical/visual designs in my head, intentionally avoiding whiteboards and whatnot, so I don't lose the ability! When I do this, I've had people come up to me and wave their hands right in my face to get my attention, because I don't see them. I "spaced out" alll the time as a kid.

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#367

Post by Suppafly »

case540 wrote: post #260
ozten wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can "hear" a song at will. I can "hear" it well enough to think about the instrumentation, etc. I can't "visualize" a pretzel. I go into an analytical mode and a gut-level physical mode, thinking about pretzels and their different aspects with momentary "pops" of "visualizing", but they aren't stable and continuous, the way I can imagine a song or any sound. Oddly, I started life as a visual artist before computers…

How do you solve geometry problems. For lots of them I visualize / rotate things im my head.

>How do you solve geometry problems. For lots of them I visualize / rotate things im my head.

Not the other guy, but I can think about how they look without actually 'seeing' them in my mind.

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#368

Post by D-Machine »

inigyou wrote: post #344
D-Machine wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The projected image is not typically indistinguishable from normal vision, namely in that there will be an "ephemerality" to the image. Some examples of this ephemerality: - the projected image usually has a translucency, i.e. it doesn't also block what is behind where it would be physically if it were really there - the projected image requires sustained concentration and mental effort to maintain detail, and if you…

Now I'm wondering if the mental focus that a trained mage requires to sustain an underworld portal, or any other spell, is the same feeling as an ordinary person in real life uses to hold a visualisation.

If you want to get really kooky, read up on Western Esotericism and Chaos Magic or tantric Buddhist practices and etc. They make basically this exact claim that this is how you "do magic" or similar such things, via sustained, "one-pointedness" and focus of attention and the Will ("gnosis"), and that, yes, often this one-pointedness of mind/attention is what lets you manifest things.

Untrue, of course, but very clearly something people have believed almost universally for centuries.

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#369

Post by inigyou »

lefrenchy wrote: post #213

I struggle with this. I think i'm Aphantic, but then again I can imagine a red apple in my mind. But if i have my eyes closed, it's not like I see it in the black of my closed eyes. I just imagine it, with some detail but also limited detail? I guess that puts me slightly on the aphantasia side of the scale, but it feels very hard to understand my own subjective experience in contrast to the written version.

You are not aphantic. We can argue whether that's average or below average, but people with aphantasia can't do it at all. TFA uses the word "hypophantasia" at least once.

Re: Aphantasia Beginner's Guide

#370

Post by D-Machine »

inigyou wrote: post #345
jibal wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see things with my eyes, experience has taught me that when I cover my eyes I cannot see things, when I close my eyes I cannot see things. That's your experience. Other people have different experiences. > That is what seeing is. What an incredible leap of petitio principii . Yet there are people who can't see despite their eyes being open and the optical machinery working correctly, and there are people who see…

No, based on the description they are normally phantasic and are just quibbling semantics.

Frankly, it is very hard to tell at times.
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