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Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#221

Post by preg_match »

fooker wrote: post #219
preg_match wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the battery life front, both Intel and AMD have caught up. Apple greatly inflates their battery numbers; to get 18 hours, you need the lowest spec model and you need to basically not use it. Chromium or Firefox open? Bluetooth active? Yeah, you’re looking at 12 hours, not 20. 12 is still good, but intel as of lunar lake (2 generations ago!) matched that. Now, the performance is still behind, particularly single co…

You are saying multiple unrelated things. > On the battery life front, both Intel and AMD have caught up. Intel and AMD's cpus don't have batteries ;) Their chips are approximately as efficient as Apple's chips from ~2 years ago, but that's not their fault, it's Apple getting the entire allocation of new chips for about 1.5 years. > to get 18 hours, you need the lowest spec model and you need to basically not use it.…

Yes, I meant that Intel and AMD laptops have caught up to battery life, due to the chips.

I have both an M1 Pro MacBook Pro and an Asus lunar lake laptop. The M1 battery life is… good. But again not what Apple claims, if you actually use the computer. The lunar lake laptop has better battery life.

The base M1 is probably much better, but I still think these lofty 20 hour battery life claims from Apple are, well, lofty. It might be true if you playback local media with hardware acceleration and run in airplane mode. But as soon as you’re using all the antennas, the battery life goes down a lot. Bluetooth especially drains battery life.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#222

Post by lvl155 »

djxfade wrote: post #129
lvl155 wrote: post #111

It’s a shame that Macs have leading processors and hardwares but Apple can’t make Linux first-class. I know they have full builds internally so it’s not a matter of resources. It’s simply a business decision for Apple. And quite a dumb one at that. Here’s hoping that Ternus reverses that shortsighted decision.

Realistically, what would the business case for Apple be where it would make sense to make Linux a first-class citizen on their hardware? Their product is a combination of hardware and software that works together to form the final product.

You mean other than the fact that MacOS continues its slow decline? And the fact that giving your customers different options to use their hardwares would attract more even more customers?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#223

Post by paulryanrogers »

superb_dev wrote: post #24
paulryanrogers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How likely is such tuning to happen within the practical lifetime of these devices? It's already been years and Linux isn't even feature complete on newer models. Apple's indifference to OSS does not give me much hope.

Given the enormous lifetime of these devices, I’d say chances are pretty good! The only thing that’s going to make an M series Mac obsolete is when Apple stops releasing updates. If you can run Linux on it, that thing is going to last forever.

My concern is for the devices I have, which are usually newer, and for battery life. Linux doesn't even have full hardware support, much less efficient battery life on these now several year old devices.

Maybe things will unlock soon and stay that way long enough for it to be viable for me. I'm just not holding my breath.

Of course it's great to have a supported OS for retired hardware--regardless of battery performance. That's a different use case. And I salute all those who work to keep old devices out of landfills.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#224

Post by paulryanrogers »

LoganDark wrote: post #23
paulryanrogers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How likely is such tuning to happen within the practical lifetime of these devices? It's already been years and Linux isn't even feature complete on newer models. Apple's indifference to OSS does not give me much hope.

I would assume that once you have fully functional support for entire historical SoCs, the effort stops being "get most things working on most chips" and starts becoming "adapt already-working things to the newest chips". Yes, it's been years, but there's still so much hardware that Asahi doesn't have good support for yet, and that's dividing the efforts to support the newest chips. I'm sure that once all the existin…

I've daily driven Linux for years, even on laptops. Yet they're always plugged in because I've yet to see Linux out perform battery life of native OS's. Well, except for very niche and pared down Linux's.

Rather it seems that as time goes on Linux just outgrows old devices entirely, again excluding very niche distros. Not that it makes them increasingly efficient.

Have you seen Linux getting more efficient over time? What's your use case?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#225

Post by thiht »

spankibalt wrote: post #140
euio757 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, power efficiency isn't the primary reason I'd like Apple hardware with linux software. Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with Asahi Linux.

> Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with [an Apple]. Heh, that's precisely one grouping of reasons I avoid Apple, especially with regards to trackpads and form factor (and, to a lesser degree, displays).

You’re making no sense

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#226

Post by SalariedSlave »

euio757 wrote: post #26
dgunay wrote: post #21

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to…

But, power efficiency isn't the primary reason I'd like Apple hardware with linux software. Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with Asahi Linux.

Exactly. As a lifelong linux user, I bought a Neo on release for my SO and was blown away by the quality at that price point.

I've had high-end laptops from all the big vendors, and even at the highest price tier, other vendors don't deliver such build quality. I hate how all non-Apple laptops feel. The case, the hinge, the materials, everything. If I coud reliably use linux on Apple hardware, I'd never buy another laptop brand again.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#227

Post by spankibalt »

thiht wrote: post #225
spankibalt wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with [an Apple]. Heh, that's precisely one grouping of reasons I avoid Apple, especially with regards to trackpads and form factor (and, to a lesser degree, displays).

You’re making no sense

Let me help you with that:

1. Trackpads. I hate 'em. Keyboard-integrated trackpoints and/or trackballs is what I need. Detachables with a trackpad are acceptable as one can bring a Bluetooth substitute (that's how I do it on my HP x2 G4); on a non-detachable only a trackpoint, in addition to the trackpad, is acceptable (on my HP 2730p or my workplace ThinkPads I only use the trackpoint, the trackpad is turned off).

2. Form factor. Not counting their "castrated" tablets, Apple doesn't build 2-in-1 or 3-in-1 detachables (the best general-purpose mobile computing form factor) or convertibles (T-hinge models represent the second best form factor). The last orthodox-chassis laptop purchase I made took place in 1999. Outside of a vintage or retro machine I might entertain (which itself loses out to wedge-style keyboard computer cases), that form factor is dead to me.

3. Apple is not the only outfit that ships with good displays. Et cetera.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#228

Post by Gud »

psd1 wrote: post #214
Gud wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, repair ability is only important if it’s crappy quality to begin with.

I try to buy good hardware for practical reasons. I insist on repairability for emotional reasons around ownership and independence. You do not have to value the same things as me, of course.

No actually, I do value that as well.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#229

Post by Obscurity4340 »

astrange wrote: post #220
JLO64 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exactly sums up my long term feelings. Even now I’m annoyed by all the background bloat/tasks that are running on it, and I’d prefer being able to have more control over what runs on it for battery/performance reasons. Additionally, even though I’ve had it for years at this point, I think I’d still be more comfortable if I could use i3 with it.

Background processes almost never really use expensive resources on macOS or Linux. Certainly they can cause symptoms sometimes, but it's typically no worse than extra fan noise. All the wasted resources on most people's machines are going to a) pixel buffers b) browser tabs c) both.

Almost never. But still sometimes

Also computers should run and not run what you choose. Apple should not be able to for e you to run "services" (for themselves) and apps you cant delete

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#230

Post by dang »

realusername wrote: post #59
worldsavior wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using LLMs in a project like this is also somewhat illegal, because LLMs may have inside information about apple devices and it's not allowed to use it.

That's nonsense, then it would also be somewhat illegal to use it inside Apple, being trained on GPL licensed code (and it's not even a possibility here but a known fact)

Can you please edit out swipes like "That's nonsense" from your posts here? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Your comment would be just fine without that bit.

(I realize these little things may seem insignificant, but (1) it's customary for people to underestimate the provocations in their own posts and overestimate those in others, and (2) they add up like mercury in the bloodstream.)

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