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Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

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Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genetics does not explain steep raise in last a few decades. Anyway, we do not really know what is causing it, have no real idea what it even is. But we must apply occam's razor very very quickly!

> Genetics does not explain steep raise in last a few decades. as we built better telescopes, we found more stars

Quick and cheap explanation many use, but not the case. Severe autism is also on the rise, and that doesn't need special telescopes, it's just evident.

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genetics does not explain steep raise in last a few decades. as we built better telescopes, we found more stars

Quick and cheap explanation many use, but not the case. Severe autism is also on the rise, and that doesn't need special telescopes, it's just evident.

>but not the case

like all things in life, it's not the only variable. but better recognition is absolutely a factor.

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, and foremost, the rise in autism rates is due to more sensitive instruments, a broadening of some inclusion criteria between DSM 4 and 5, more awareness of autism, less stigma associated with autism, services attached to autism diagnosis. I believe current research suggests these don't account for all the rise, but does account for most of it. If I were to include additional biological possibilities, I'd inclu…

Severe autism is on raise as well, and that has stable diagnoses over several years. Plus general cognitive decline in last a few decades is also documented. Is it politically correct to write about later stage pregnancies? It would be insta ban only a few years ago. Perhaps soon we will be able to openly discus something else, that may cause endocrine disruption, not just plastics!

We already know that most of the increase, even in diagnosis of level 3 autism, is due to diagnostic shifting/switching (as explained pretty well here: https://youtu.be/BdpSfrD3Nzs). We also know there are reasonably well supported risk factors that are increasing in prevalence; e.g. father aged >50 at the time of birth.

> general cognitive decline

According to whom? The Flynn effect famously says the opposite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#74
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Have a disability" and "broken" are not synonyms. There's no judgement or moralizing in having a disability. Autism and ADHD like you mentioned are disabilities. But the people who have them are not broken. Having a disability means some part of your life is more difficult. But that's very very different from you as a person are broken. For example, if you can fix the environment and the person can now function equa…

What is strange about the disability is when neurotypicals attack autists. It takes less then 1 second for the negative bias to trigger. If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people?

> If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people?

If you have not yet realized it, here is a black pill for you: most people are deeply manipulative and bullying basically all the time. For example nearly all social rules that are commonly accepted in society are basically about which kinds of manipulations and bullying of other people are accepted by most people vs not.

With this in mind, the answer to your question

> So why harass autistic people?

is trivial: because it is currently socially mostly accepted.

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#75
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some autistic people have to wear helmets and spend all day rocking back and forth eating anything they find in the carpet. The are unable to care for themselves and depend fully on others. These people are not operating within the nominal range of human behavior that might be classified as "functional." Only 20-30% of adult Autistics can even hold a job. Not a 'good' job, mind you, ANY job.

90% of autistics are undiagnosed and work.

87.93% of statistics are completely made up on the spot.

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the behaviors by which autism is diagnosed (social communication, repetitive behaviors and restricted interests) are fairly high-level behaviors, dependent on a lot of cognitive/neural machinery beneath it. There is an idea out there that convergent behaviors that allow consistent diagnosis depends on this, as the resulting behaviors might results from differences in many different underlying processes, but…

Is high-level behavior the only criteria for diagnosis? I think the majority of the public would like to better understand how we came into this position. There's nothing wrong with the topic of autism as research, but it's been a political football for so long that there are many reasonable doubts about methodology, diagnosis, and relevance to everyday healthcare. I understand there may be complications with some pa…

> the majority of the public

This requires some citation or justification.

Diagnosis is not a criminal conviction in a North American court of law. In particular, reasonable doubt -- particularly among casual, non-clinical, self-deputized jurists who don't generally have any insight into the patient's chart, let alone medical qualification whatsoever -- is not a sufficient justification to withhold diagnosis.

In your post, you are leaning a bit too heavily on vibes to do the heavy lifting in making your points. For example, you claim there exist people with epilepsy who prefer to be labeled as autistic, but you don't say how many people are doing this, why they are doing this in a way that doesn't strawman, nor why this is even topical.

My interpretation is that you are hoping the reader will have specific visceral (vibes based) reactions to these facts and the drama of the spectacle you've described -- e.g. "yikes, some morons are conflating correlation with causation/identification and using that faulty reasoning to claim a diagnosis they don't deserve". Please correct me if I'm misrepresenting what you are trying to communicate, it is not my intention

My suspicion is that this is a tiny number of people to begin with, and not an indictment of autism diagnosis in the way you believe it is. In fact, most of the people you seem to take issue with are self-diagnosing. What specific "methodology, diagnosis, and relevance to every day healthcare" are you taking issue with then?

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#77
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is strange about the disability is when neurotypicals attack autists. It takes less then 1 second for the negative bias to trigger. If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people?

> If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people? If you have not yet realized it, here is a black pill for you: most people are deeply manipulative and bullying basically all the time. For example nearly all social rules that are commonly accepted in society are basically about which kinds of manipulations and bullying of other people are a…

Yeah I agree. I think autists pretty much live in a dystopia.

They have to hide themselves because it's socially acceptable to harass them.

It's been proven multiple times that neurotypicals refuse to interact with autists automatically https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700

Their experience of the world is a disorder "to be cured"

If the future is here but not evenly distributed then the dystopia is here but not everyone lives in it. Some maintain it.

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#78
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is strange about the disability is when neurotypicals attack autists. It takes less then 1 second for the negative bias to trigger. If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people?

> If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people? If you have not yet realized it, here is a black pill for you: most people are deeply manipulative and bullying basically all the time. For example nearly all social rules that are commonly accepted in society are basically about which kinds of manipulations and bullying of other people are a…

[dead]

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#79
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genetics does not explain steep raise in last a few decades. as we built better telescopes, we found more stars

Quick and cheap explanation many use, but not the case. Severe autism is also on the rise, and that doesn't need special telescopes, it's just evident.

It's entirely possible that the ability of doctors to diagnose even severe autism has improved, for example a family doctor who sees a young child with very low IQ may not be surprised by undeveloped language skills and may not recognize that as autism specifically. It's also possible that the increasing destigmatizing of mental/developmental disorders and increased awareness of autism in general could result in more parents and doctors seeking proper assessments. The sad reality is that there are still places where autism is likely to be seen a spiritual condition, a witch's curse, or demonic possession.

Re: Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology

#80
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some autistic people have to wear helmets and spend all day rocking back and forth eating anything they find in the carpet. The are unable to care for themselves and depend fully on others. These people are not operating within the nominal range of human behavior that might be classified as "functional." Only 20-30% of adult Autistics can even hold a job. Not a 'good' job, mind you, ANY job.

90% of autistics are undiagnosed and work.

I kind of thought that the fact I provided a number at all implied that it referred to the diagnosed, but the point that we can't know what we don't know is fair.

Still, my point stands. Most people who have it badly enough to get diagnosed can't hold jobs. Autism isn't some quirky personality trait that makes you a special cool kid on Tik-tok. It's a government recognized disability.

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