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IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

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Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#121

This feels like a baby step towards Arm being able to emulate z/Arch workloads, maybe with a bit of secret sauce for certain specific operations, which doesn't seem very much like IBM.

ARM can emulate z workloads. https://hercules-390.github.io/html/index.html (or QEMU, for partition level emulation).

There's also the poorly advertised IBM-native S390 emulator. I worked on it over a decade ago, you could run S390 on PPC and X86 offically, and ARM and a few others were unofficial.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#122

Not explained in the article: Every single physical core on the chip decodes and executes both s390x and Arm AArch64 instructions, dynamically switching between the two ISA modes and convert them into micro ops. Mode switching is hypervisor-driven. And those chips are fast. 5.7 Ghz 2nm node. For who: When you need to run Linux programs on high security, mission critical environment. Others should not care.

So why the 2nm x86 chips are clocked so low? Why couldn't they be 6GHz? x86_64 ISA did it again? That said IBM should add RISC-V support.

Speed is frequency times instructions per clock, modulated by pipeline stalls.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#123
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failing to defend trademarks for such similarity named and closely related products has extremely high risks.

“Xenon” is a pre-existing word. Intel’s not going to lose protection on “Xeon” for IBM using “Xenon” as an internal codename for their own CPU.

Pre-existing word like “Word” “Excel” “Apple” etc.

We know about “Xenon” because they used the internal name outside the company. There’s zero difference between an unofficial and official branding when you’re using it in press releases.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#124
post #119
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that z/VM doesn't seem to support spinning up ARM Linux VMs, at least according to this diagram, but it does support bringing up s390x Linux VMs (the LinuxONE Community Cloud creates Linux VMs under z/VM). Also, it looks like z/OS is running directly on the LPAR, which wasn't common the last time I looked (a decade ago, more or less).

I suspect that is not an inherent limitation of the dual-ISA design (the HotChips slides mention some sort of bidirectional thread state mapping between arm and z), but just about there not being z/VM release that supports that (building such a thing is probably SMoP, but another question is whether that makes business sense).

Building is easy. Supporting it for the next 50 years might be another story.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point no one is buying into mainframes are they? So they are just selling to the existing pool of users for which the price just has to come in under the cost/risk of rewriting all their ancient stuff.

> At this point no one is buying into mainframes are they? If you want to be a high-volume consumer bank (insurance is similar - it's about processing a high volume of transactions), you have few alternatives. You can get a couple mainframes (you should place them in different datacenters), with their extreme reliability and stability, or you can build your infrastructure with commodity distributed systems, but then…

Sure, but there are very very few new consumer banks.

Most of the existing ones already have mainframes because they were early adopters.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#126
post #71

This feels like a baby step towards Arm being able to emulate z/Arch workloads, maybe with a bit of secret sauce for certain specific operations, which doesn't seem very much like IBM.

Not even the weirdest thing IBM did to get compatibility between their mainframes and other CPU architectures. To build the XT/370 and AT/370 expansion cards, they custom-ordered modified 68000s that decoded System/370 instructions instead of the 68k instruction set, with most of the instructions handled by the new microcode and the few stragglers software-emulated: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PC-based…

A couple more articles on them.

https://thechipletter.substack.com/p/motorola-intel-ibm-make...

https://www.cpushack.com/2013/03/22/cpu-of-the-day-ibm-micro...

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#127
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone else make an ARM CPU that is expressly designed for performance with good cooling ?

Fujitsu replaced their SPARC CPUs with ARM, I think they were pretty good, but last I read about them was a few years ago.

Fujitsu is developing new ARM based CPUs called Monaka, but their focus seems to be HPC and AI, no mention of "normal" servers

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#128
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fujitsu replaced their SPARC CPUs with ARM, I think they were pretty good, but last I read about them was a few years ago.

Fujitsu is developing new ARM based CPUs called Monaka, but their focus seems to be HPC and AI, no mention of "normal" servers

A Fujitsu ARM Server for normal people that I can buy through a normal retail channel and boot a freakin' generic Linux ISO... that would be great!

(Yes, I'm aware of Ampere Altra. The space desperately needs competition and commoditization, imho.)

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point no one is buying into mainframes are they? If you want to be a high-volume consumer bank (insurance is similar - it's about processing a high volume of transactions), you have few alternatives. You can get a couple mainframes (you should place them in different datacenters), with their extreme reliability and stability, or you can build your infrastructure with commodity distributed systems, but then…

Sure, but there are very very few new consumer banks. Most of the existing ones already have mainframes because they were early adopters.

There are many "new banks" that have been using cloud. It remains to be seen if they'll opt to migrate their stacks to mainframes, in which case, the ARM support might come in handy, as more packages are better optimized (as in using platform-specific functionality) for ARM than for s390x (where I don't think many people spend much time).

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fujitsu is developing new ARM based CPUs called Monaka, but their focus seems to be HPC and AI, no mention of "normal" servers

A Fujitsu ARM Server for normal people that I can buy through a normal retail channel and boot a freakin' generic Linux ISO... that would be great! (Yes, I'm aware of Ampere Altra. The space desperately needs competition and commoditization, imho.)

The funny thing is that Fujitsu has a sizable enterprise IT business, and their Primergy servers are very good, so why don't they offer their own ARM CPUs?
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