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Zohran and the Short Link

iamwillwang.com

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Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#181

Post by mempko »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #116
zaphar wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair Mamdani has stated that he is a "socialist" numerous times. So I don't think that the characterization is wrong necessarily.

He identifies as a socialist, sure, but his implemented policies (what GGP was calling socialist) are mostly standard-issue municipal management. Is it socialism to hire temporary labor for snow removal? To fix potholes? My boring municipality in the middle of a red state does that and nobody calls it socialist.

There is a long tradition in America of Socialist mayors maintaining cities really well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewer_socialism Glad to see Zohran is bringing it back.

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#182

Post by piker »

zaphar wrote: post #111
pjc50 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the endless labelling of everything rightwingers don't like as "socialism" has backfired. A generation has been told that affordable food and housing, usable public transport, healthcare, not getting shot at school, not getting racially abused etc. are "socialism". So obviously they want to have some of this "socialism" as soon as possible.

To be fair Mamdani has stated that he is a "socialist" numerous times. So I don't think that the characterization is wrong necessarily.

Yeah, I was surprised to see a downvote for that. Isn’t that like his position? I don’t believe in socialism. He seems like a nice guy. These aren’t incompatible.

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#183

Post by piker »

inigyou wrote: post #145
nickv wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an unhelpful comment. What socialist policies has he enacted? (I live here btw)

Well he's the government and he did stuff, and socialism is when the government does stuff, so he's socialist.

I’m sorry this makes no sense. He’s creating city owned grocery stores. I’m not just making up some slanderous label. That’s a socialist idea if ever there was one, good as it may be!

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#184

Post by piker »

pjc50 wrote: post #102
piker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His policies are socialist. Some of us still perceive that as a bad thing.

I think the endless labelling of everything rightwingers don't like as "socialism" has backfired. A generation has been told that affordable food and housing, usable public transport, healthcare, not getting shot at school, not getting racially abused etc. are "socialism". So obviously they want to have some of this "socialism" as soon as possible.

Hey buddy I’m not a “right winger”, I’m dead center with a voting record that reflects that. His policies are on the left end of the spectrum, whether that fits your model of the truth or not.

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#185

Post by [deleted] »

piker wrote: post #183
inigyou wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well he's the government and he did stuff, and socialism is when the government does stuff, so he's socialist.

I’m sorry this makes no sense. He’s creating city owned grocery stores. I’m not just making up some slanderous label. That’s a socialist idea if ever there was one, good as it may be!

[deleted]

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#186

Post by throwaway12053 »

LastTrain wrote: post #100
piker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His policies are socialist. Some of us still perceive that as a bad thing.

Socialism is a continuum that the US has been on to some degree since its inception, it isn't a case of Capitalism good, socialism bad. Here's how I envy you: the people you have policy disagreements with will engage on those in good faith. I wish the opposite were true.

It seems to me that what is "socialism" is just based on politicians personal definitions.

  Basic education for the people = good
  Higher education for the people = socialism

  Bail outs and subsidies for businesses = good
  Safety net for individuals = socialism

  Public highway = good
  Public railroad = socialism

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#187

Post by 0x457 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #112
selfhoster1312 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is do you trust a healthy user-empowering ecosystem will form around a VC-fueled corporation that controls 97+% of the bluesky network? https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/

I wish Mastodon had been ready for an influx of Twitter refugees when the time came. And, I wish the average person was ready for decentralized services like the fediverse. But, most of the Twitter folks I followed went to Bsky, so I have an account. I guess we just have to hope that even though all the signs point to a terrible end for Bsky, maybe the kind of cantankerous users who left Twitter early and built the c…

Mastodon instances struggled before the influx.

> I wish the average person was ready for decentralized services like the fediverse.

It’s more like, “I wish decentralized services like the Fediverse were ready for the average person.”

Currently, if you decide to join Mastodon (which some people will correctly say is “not a thing,” ironically proving my point), you have to figure out which server to join, then find out that the server you joined is at capacity and struggling, or discover that it blocks federation with servers you might be interested in.

Bootstrapping your feed in Mastodon is also not fun.

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#188

Post by zaphar »

krapp wrote: post #118
zaphar wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair Mamdani has stated that he is a "socialist" numerous times. So I don't think that the characterization is wrong necessarily.

If we want to be fair, it depends on the characterization and its intended implications. The right has called every Democrat since FDR a "socialist" specifically to put the fear of tanks in the streets and death camps into people regardless of their actual policies. They called Obama a socialist. They called Hillary Clinton a socialist. So even if Mamdani calls himself a socialist it's important to ask what he means…

This line of thought bugs me. We use labels for a reason. Socialism has a well accepted definition and has for decades. We haven't modified it's meaning. I think it's fine to take someone at their word if they use a label. It's not on me to interrogate whether they mean something else when they use the label. It's on them to use the label correctly if they want to communicate. Especially if they are a politician where the entire job is to communicate and persuade.

Re: Zohran and the Short Link

#189

Post by krapp »

zaphar wrote: post #188
krapp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we want to be fair, it depends on the characterization and its intended implications. The right has called every Democrat since FDR a "socialist" specifically to put the fear of tanks in the streets and death camps into people regardless of their actual policies. They called Obama a socialist. They called Hillary Clinton a socialist. So even if Mamdani calls himself a socialist it's important to ask what he means…

This line of thought bugs me. We use labels for a reason. Socialism has a well accepted definition and has for decades. We haven't modified it's meaning. I think it's fine to take someone at their word if they use a label. It's not on me to interrogate whether they mean something else when they use the label. It's on them to use the label correctly if they want to communicate. Especially if they are a politician wher…

There is no "well accepted definition" for any political term, least of all any political term from the left, each which has been co-opted by the right to the point that most are simply pejoratives and slurs in common parlance. Just look at "woke" for an example. No one using it anymore uses it in good faith, certainly not on the left.

What we have with "socialism" is the entire spectrum of what socialists themselves believe (and can't often agree upon) and what their opponents insist upon. A European style social democrat and an anarcho-syndicalist have radically different goals, but both would be considered "socialist" by most people. As would - just to point out the absurdity of it - Joe Biden, to half the country.

It is absolutely on you, and all of us, to think beyond "labels," otherwise you just make yourself susceptible to propaganda and misinformation, or at least incapable of fighting it.

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