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Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

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Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#11
Drew convinced me that we should abolish copyright through his blog[1][2]. I find it very unfortunate that he uses the copyright licenses of the software hosted on SourHut as an argument against LLMs. Abolishing copyright means abolishing copyright for everyone, even you. Even if you don't like what people do with their copies.

I also find the reference to the energy consumption of AI dated a year and a half ago to be extremely unconvincing. The efficiency gains in AI over the course of the last year have probably been unparalleled in any other era of computing. The model (Qwen 3.8 27b) that I run on my own hardware on a single, high end gaming GPU, is often compared to the state of the art, massive frontier model from the beginning of this year. There was literally no amount of money you could pay to any company to run the biggest, most energy hungry AI model in existence at the time that the reference was written, that would even compare to the quality you can get out of a single GPU now.

[1] https://drewdevault.com/blog/Alice-in-Wonderland/

[2] https://drewdevault.com/blog/Sustainable-creativity-post-cop...

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#12
post #7

I am a paying supporter and I am considering to stop paying. This policy is a) dumb b) unenforceable. I pay them for infrastructure and service, not for some pseudo-moral ideas about how I should write my code. My code is as little of their concern, as things happening in my own house.

You are literally paying them to be concerned about your code.

Paying to store my code, not paying for them to police who or what wrote it or assisted in writing it.

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#13
post #10
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be less misleading to also include: > Moreover, the use of AI for purposes other than co-authoring code, tickets, emails, and so on, is discouraged but not prohibited. If you use LLMs privately to review your work, to ask questions of, to perform security analysis, and so on, and then write original code to push to SourceHut, your use-case is aligned with our policy.

I think this is more of a nitpick than anything. SourceHut is a code forge, code forges are where you store your code (and tickets). The policy going forward is a ban on using LLMs to write code (and tickets). The use cases listed there (reviewing work, asking questions, etc) are minority use cases and mostly would be unenforceable even if included in the policy.

It's not a nitpuck to me: reading the comment I replied to, I assumed I needed to cancel my Sourcehut subscription. In fact, I don't. That's a lot of information to've left out of so many pull quotes.

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#14
post #13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is more of a nitpick than anything. SourceHut is a code forge, code forges are where you store your code (and tickets). The policy going forward is a ban on using LLMs to write code (and tickets). The use cases listed there (reviewing work, asking questions, etc) are minority use cases and mostly would be unenforceable even if included in the policy.

It's not a nitpuck to me: reading the comment I replied to, I assumed I needed to cancel my Sourcehut subscription. In fact, I don't. That's a lot of information to've left out of so many pull quotes.

Your worry was that if you used AI for things other than generating code/tickets/communication/assets, that you couldn't use sourceforge?

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#15
I don't know how this can be enforced, there's a lot of room for interpretation, making projects at risk to be banned.

> - original content written with or which facilitates the use of LLMs (large language models) or other generative AI technologies

and

> Moreover, the use of AI for purposes other than co-authoring code, tickets, emails, and so on, is discouraged but not prohibited. If you use LLMs privately to review your work, to ask questions of, to perform security analysis, and so on, and then write original code to push to SourceHut, your use-case is aligned with our policy.

So from what I understand it is OK to use AI for security reviews privately but is not cool to host a project that allows to do that?

Also, what does it mean "and so on"? Like "anything we consider we don't allow at some point?"

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#17

I am a paying supporter and I am considering to stop paying. This policy is a) dumb b) unenforceable. I pay them for infrastructure and service, not for some pseudo-moral ideas about how I should write my code. My code is as little of their concern, as things happening in my own house.

Same, and for the same reason, I considered the same when they added the "content related to cryptocurrency or blockchain technologies" clause as well, though I do not see the value in these technologies.

I will add that the policy is not just dumb and unenforceable, it is also poorly reasoned. Many of the arguments apply equally to other technologies, or don't apply to AI-generated code in the first place.

If resource usage/hardware costs are a concern, should games and databases be banned? If financial ethics are a concern, should SaaS services/apps with micro-transactions be banned? If ownership is a concern, should closed-source software or private repos be banned? And so on.

I think it is obvious that this choice, much like the crypto/blockchain choice, was made purely because of the "vibes" (if you will) around AI, and not for any logical reason.

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#19
post #7

I am a paying supporter and I am considering to stop paying. This policy is a) dumb b) unenforceable. I pay them for infrastructure and service, not for some pseudo-moral ideas about how I should write my code. My code is as little of their concern, as things happening in my own house.

You are literally paying them to be concerned about your code.

Nah - all my repos are private, they mostly contain my configs and I am not paying money to read these insanities about tools I use.

As much as I like paying to escape a capitalistic monstrosity such as github, they still seem to be more … mentally stable, for the lack of a better term. At least you are not at a whim of some BDFL or an aggressive minority of radicals. It is quite sad, that we have a choice of enshittifaction and radicalization only, with nothing in between just providing good service to paying customers.

Re: Changes to Sourcehut's terms of service regarding LLMs

#20
post #11

Drew convinced me that we should abolish copyright through his blog[1][2]. I find it very unfortunate that he uses the copyright licenses of the software hosted on SourHut as an argument against LLMs. Abolishing copyright means abolishing copyright for everyone, even you. Even if you don't like what people do with their copies. I also find the reference to the energy consumption of AI dated a year and a half ago to b…

While I am 100% with you that we've arrived at the place local GPUs can do real, good work and that it helps combat the energy arguments against certain LLM usage, Drew is not likely to agree with you. I can't find it on a quick search which tells me I'm probably remembering it from his prior Mastodon account, but I distinctly remember Drew once talking about how gaming GPUs were part of the (climate) problem and that we should all take notes from the Nintendo Switch in terms of gaming joy delivered per watt.

This is not to say I disagree with Drew's desire for efficiency, even in gaming. This is simply to say: from my recollection of that blog/toot thread/whatever it was, even home LLM usage won't meet what I recall his energy bar to be, until we've got planning and orchestrator models that fit on a non-flagship phone.

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