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Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

humanprogress.org

231–240 of 294 posts

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#231
post #222
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised (I certainly am) how fond can some people be of concrete box architecture - hint Le Corbusier.

Take a look around [1]. This is what every neighbourhood built looks like now. [1] https://maps.app.goo.gl/bMYANpDU2AGDKVQN7

Same in Switzerland. https://maps.app.goo.gl/jHncP5XvFC4F3WAt9

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#232
post #165
post #4

We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building. I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony railings that face outwards as it ruins the "look". Given almost all apartment buildings are built consistently between every floor they could ensure co…

You say stupid, but I actually would find it sad to see beautiful buildings that are in many cases hundreds of years old defaced with loads of small condensers bolted on to the face. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have A/C but rather all flats use one system with a large roof condenser, or where that is not possible district cooling or ground source.

The amount of engineering that goes into a system like this makes it impossible to retrofit into an existing structure.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#233
post #210
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced air cooling require air to be colder than the heatsink surface and evaporative cooling require relative humidity to be less than 100%. I don't know how bad the situation in Europe is, but we're already at point where there are times and places on Earth where one can construct a primal instinctive understanding of that by simply walking out of an air conditioned room(to which you SHOULD return within half an ho…

> I don't know how bad the situation in Europe is Yeah there are those places, and northern Europe is not one of them!

I mean, those places didn't have air conditioning 50-100 years ago and did fine, now air conditioning is life saving devices there. Global warming/climate change is real.

The WHO guide others are posting says fans only work under 40C, but that's the absolute maximum. There's no other option than resorting to devices based on refrigeration cycle when people are already dying("estimated through excess mortality" or however you dress it up), beyond being useless(human cognitive performance significantly degrade at above 28C).

The upper bound of 40C quoted in other comments is also just absolute maximum temperature - it's just saying that there's no way fans do anything if temperature of air and body are actually equal. The practical upper bound is lower than that(humidity and metabolism dependent, I guess).

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#234
post #212
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha. no. try opening your window in +15C high humidity and then sleep. I assure you, sleeping in a 0-5C sleeping bag on the nearby sea shore would be a more acceptable experience. You just never lived there, yes?

Perhaps 15C is a typo? That is perfectly comfortable even at 100% RH + no air movement.

nope, no typo. 15C+100RH+no convection = you just die in a few hours.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#235

For me the hardest part is sleeping. I can cope with heat during the day, but even with good bedding, mattress, windows open, fans, etc. the body traps heat underneath and if it's hot outside it's just impossible to sleep. I was like a zombie for 2 months this year. And sleep deprivation in general has a ton of adverse health effects. Unfortunately, I do live in a "heritage" building so split unit is a no-no. Midea p…

>Midea pre-filled mini-splits went from €700 to 2000-3000+ and months of lead time. It's crazy.

They're back to normal prices now. At least in Germany. Make sure to grab one before the next Summer hits :)

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#236
post #202

I also find deeply and even extremely ironic, that the same greenwashing radicals who bash ACs in Europe are then supporting "heat pumps" as a modern and efficient heating device. There are even programs labelled as Eco or green or whatever the jargon of the day is, to subsidize or finance heat pumps. People are seemingly unaware that heat pumps are just an AC with a tiny additional valve in the pipes :) .

Heat pumps are just ACs with a lot more energy efficiency. How does that make people hypocrites?

No, heat pumps and ACs are exactly the same device. They add a button to the remote and series of valves in the machine to switch flow of refrigerant forward and reverse, and call it "heat pumps" for upsell. All air conditioners are technically heat pumps.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#237
post #8

First words from the article: >Yet as heat waves kill tens of thousands of Europeans each year ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett? Last words from the article: >But forgoing air conditioning is a refusal to move on from a lethally hot past. Gee, I wonder if this global warming thing wasn't a mistake to let happen... If that author is right,…

> ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett? Are you considering answering this question? Was it the case fifty years ago? Did anything change?

It is called a rhetorical question. You already know the answer.

And if you don't already know it, just wonder why AC isn't widespread in Europe, why nuclear plants built decades ago have to stop due to the lack of water and why every single article talks about an "exceptional" heat wave. Do you really need me to hold you hand there?

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#238
post #8

First words from the article: >Yet as heat waves kill tens of thousands of Europeans each year ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett? Last words from the article: >But forgoing air conditioning is a refusal to move on from a lethally hot past. Gee, I wonder if this global warming thing wasn't a mistake to let happen... If that author is right,…

How are u gonna punish china? do u have any logic? chatgpt 3.5 makes more sense than these types of comments...

I didn't know it was China who lied and diverted global efforts to reduce greenhouse gases...

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#239
post #31
post #8

First words from the article: >Yet as heat waves kill tens of thousands of Europeans each year ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett? Last words from the article: >But forgoing air conditioning is a refusal to move on from a lethally hot past. Gee, I wonder if this global warming thing wasn't a mistake to let happen... If that author is right,…

> If that author is right, then we can and should punish the people responsible for global warming? So every adult human and corporation?

We can start with people who got paid to make sure no action was taken against global warming - such as everyone working at CATO, like the author of this article...

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#240
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I hear you, I think AC is better centralized for the building, along with heat and water. Yes, there are numerous reasons why this is harder to do than just doing it ad-hoc per apartment, but if we’re to see it as infrastructure, it should receive the same level of consideration as other utilities.

For most of the buildings from communism era - all the utilities run through the apartments anyway and there is absolutely no place or way to retrofit these utilities without extensively either re-doing it from scratch, or trying to somehow retrofit it on the outside. All of these options are a non-starter considering basic AC starts from $500. Why should anyone invest more than that?

Permissions and structural concerns aside, you only need one 65mm/2.5" hole in the wall to run the high/low pressure gas lines, a drain hose, and a power cable, plus couple more non-penetrating drill holes on the wall to mount the inside and outside units. You'll need a hole saw attachment on a drill, a vacuum pump to thoroughly dry out the system, and bits of plastic putty to fill the hole against intrusion. It's a less than 5 man-hour job.
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