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The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

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Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#251

Post by dinfinity »

ericmay wrote: post #249
dinfinity wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an incredible way to miss the points and what an incredible bit of logic. "Sure, I am an abusive asshole. But you need me, so I'm going to continue to be an abusive asshole. Why wouldn't I? You need me." At this point I'm just going to assume you're trolling. Well done, I guess.

> At this point I'm just going to assume you're trolling. Well done, I guess. Every accusation is a confession. > "Sure, I am an abusive asshole. But you need me, so I'm going to continue to be an abusive asshole. Why wouldn't I? You need me." Well, then why are, idk what to call some folks, I guess anti-American pro-EU? still trying to convince us of anything? It's like you keep repeating "we don't trust you", "we d…

> Every accusation is a confession.

That doesn't make sense. Are you accusing me of trolling? Based on what?

> Well, then why are, idk what to call some folks, I guess anti-American pro-EU? still trying to convince us of anything?

The option "the USA stops being an abusive asshole" is really not on your radar, is it?

Because that would be the obvious and best way out of the current situation, like in the abusive relationship analogy you so aptly described. You do realize in that scenario the boyfriend is unequivocally the bad guy, right?

> Ok got it, we've moved on and we're flying solo now

The USA hasn't "moved on" and is not "flying solo". It is being petty, reneging on previously made agreements and actively significantly hurting and threatening to hurt the other parties in their (ex-)relationships constantly. It's like a couple with kids where one of the parents suddenly starts behaving like the biggest piece of shit on earth. Even after the divorce that is going to be a massive shit show for all parties involved.

If the USA wouldn't be dragging the rest of the world down with it, we wouldn't care. But you are. Spectacularly and moronically badly.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#253

Post by ericmay »

dinfinity wrote: post #251
ericmay wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point I'm just going to assume you're trolling. Well done, I guess. Every accusation is a confession. > "Sure, I am an abusive asshole. But you need me, so I'm going to continue to be an abusive asshole. Why wouldn't I? You need me." Well, then why are, idk what to call some folks, I guess anti-American pro-EU? still trying to convince us of anything? It's like you keep repeating "we don't trust you", "we d…

> Every accusation is a confession. That doesn't make sense. Are you accusing me of trolling? Based on what? > Well, then why are, idk what to call some folks, I guess anti-American pro-EU? still trying to convince us of anything? The option "the USA stops being an abusive asshole" is really not on your radar, is it? Because that would be the obvious and best way out of the current situation, like in the abusive rela…

> That doesn't make sense. Are you accusing me of trolling? Based on what?

I'm not accusing you of anything, but if you are going to accuse me of trolling then I'll assume you are admitting to trolling instead.

> The option "the USA stops being an abusive asshole" is really not on your radar, is it?

It's not - that's why my analogy made sense. We're abusive, relationships unrepairable, never to be trusted again, highly volatile, you name it. You implicitly or explicitly (and others) have made these claims, not me. I think we can absolutely still work together, and there is a lot of room to repair things and frankly they're not as bad as the internet people make them out to be.

But if all you are going to do is sit there and repeat these feel-good phrases: "can't trust, can't redeem, highly volatile, &c" then ok sure yea we're all those things and there's no interest in talking or trying to repair anything because you've already declared it's over.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#254

Post by rjrjrjrj »

ericmay wrote: post #247
ben_w wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a lot of trade deals and have created new ones while Trump has been in office. Countries have willingly negotiated with us and us with them. What you are writing is ideological wishful thinking, not what is reflected in reality. Those trade deals aren't worth the paper they're written on while Trump is around. Everybody is aware of this, the only difference is that Trump seems to think he's the only one who…

> Those trade deals aren't worth the paper they're written on while Trump is around. Everybody is aware of this, the only difference is that Trump seems to think he's the only one who knows. But they are still real trade deals, the rules are still followed, &c. Your personal distaste for Donald Trump (I believe he belongs in jail and didn't vote for him either time) doesn't change that fact.

The US isn't even following its own rules. The "liberation day" tariffs were illegal.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#255

Post by ericmay »

ben_w wrote: post #250
ericmay wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those trade deals aren't worth the paper they're written on while Trump is around. Everybody is aware of this, the only difference is that Trump seems to think he's the only one who knows. But they are still real trade deals, the rules are still followed, &c. Your personal distaste for Donald Trump (I believe he belongs in jail and didn't vote for him either time) doesn't change that fact.

> But they are still real trade deals, the rules are still followed, &c. No, that's the point, they're not. > Your personal distaste for Donald Trump (I believe he belongs in jail and didn't vote for him either time) doesn't change that fact. Same in reverse. He could be everyone's favourite uncle and it would still be rendering the US's word worthless. Me, I'm not eligible to vote for him, what with having repeatedl…

> No, that's the point, they're not.

Do you want me to quote formal trade agreements that were made or are you able to just do a Google search yourself and see?

> Same in reverse. He could be everyone's favourite uncle and it would still be rendering the US's word worthless.

Ok our word is worthless and all that stuff so who cares then what anyone in Europe or whatever thinks.

Oh well so sad we should withdraw from NATO immediately, send troops back to the US, and remove sanctions on Russia so we can bring down gas prices - who cares what Europe thinks since our word is worthless and all.

Guess we'll just have to keep doing whatever we're doing.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#256

Post by dinfinity »

ericmay wrote: post #253
dinfinity wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every accusation is a confession. That doesn't make sense. Are you accusing me of trolling? Based on what? > Well, then why are, idk what to call some folks, I guess anti-American pro-EU? still trying to convince us of anything? The option "the USA stops being an abusive asshole" is really not on your radar, is it? Because that would be the obvious and best way out of the current situation, like in the abusive rela…

> That doesn't make sense. Are you accusing me of trolling? Based on what? I'm not accusing you of anything, but if you are going to accuse me of trolling then I'll assume you are admitting to trolling instead. > The option "the USA stops being an abusive asshole" is really not on your radar, is it? It's not - that's why my analogy made sense. We're abusive, relationships unrepairable, never to be trusted again, high…

The USA hasn't "moved on" and is not "flying solo". It is being petty, reneging on previously made agreements and actively significantly hurting and threatening to hurt the other parties in their (ex-)relationships constantly. It's like a couple with kids where one of the parents suddenly starts behaving like the biggest piece of shit on earth. Even after the divorce that is going to be a massive shit show for all parties involved.

If the USA wouldn't be dragging the rest of the world down with it, we wouldn't care. But you are. Spectacularly and moronically badly.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#257

Post by ChoGGi »

lucasyvas wrote: post #252

None of you have any idea what you’re talking about - this thread should be nuked. A bunch of arm chair commentators with no actual understanding of the specifics of a negotiation claiming to know otherwise.

What does any of that matter for speculative discussions?

Is hacker news going to be at the table?

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#258

Post by hodder »

TitaRusell wrote: post #229

We're rapidly approaching a time in which America doesn't make anything that can't be replaced. If Carney was serious he'd fly to Beijing and shake Chinese hands. That would utterly terrify the few responsible adults left in Washington to back the fuck down.

You mean like Carney did in January? Trump cannot be shown reason once he has convinced himself his gut feel is correct.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#259

Post by ben_w »

ericmay wrote: post #255
ben_w wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they are still real trade deals, the rules are still followed, &c. No, that's the point, they're not. > Your personal distaste for Donald Trump (I believe he belongs in jail and didn't vote for him either time) doesn't change that fact. Same in reverse. He could be everyone's favourite uncle and it would still be rendering the US's word worthless. Me, I'm not eligible to vote for him, what with having repeatedl…

> No, that's the point, they're not. Do you want me to quote formal trade agreements that were made or are you able to just do a Google search yourself and see? > Same in reverse. He could be everyone's favourite uncle and it would still be rendering the US's word worthless. Ok our word is worthless and all that stuff so who cares then what anyone in Europe or whatever thinks. Oh well so sad we should withdraw from N…

> Do you want me to quote formal trade agreements that were made or are you able to just do a Google search yourself and see?

I wrote "Those trade deals aren't worth the paper they're written on", you seem to be responding as if I wrote "nonexistent".

> Oh well so sad we should withdraw from NATO immediately, send troops back to the US, and remove sanctions on Russia so we can bring down gas prices - who cares what Europe thinks since our word is worthless and all.

Those troops are in Europe for your benefit, more than ours. Those bases are a big part of how the USA gets to do force projection.

Can you really not see the cost to yourself? Your reaction is like committing suicide after getting caught cheating. You're not coming back from cheating, but if you really, genuinely, seriously, cannot see how much worse it can get… wow, things are going to get so much worse.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#260

Post by HDThoreaun »

dgellow wrote: post #224
sobellian wrote: post #49

Imagine you want to build a factory in the US. You pay tariffs on the factory equipment you need - much of it is made overseas. You pay tariffs on your input goods. And then when you try to export your customers get hit with a retaliatory tariff. I don't agree with tariffs but even if we accept some level of protectionism you can't tariff everything the way this administration wants. You have to pick what you actuall…

Trump tariffs aren’t for economics reasons. He’s using that as a bullying tactic. It’s pretty obvious given that each tantrum is followed by a new tariff

Trump tariffs are a corruption tactic. The UAE is paying Trump ~$100 a year to dodge tariffs by holding his stable coin.
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