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Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

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Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#201

Post by iso1631 »

kalleboo wrote: post #113
michelsedgh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these countries are pushing EV's so I don't understand how it could be about energy use lol?

EVs use less energy than ICE cars, they are more efficient.

But they put more demand on the electrical grid.

Domestic connections in the UK are built with an average peak consumption of about 1.5 to 2kW, you can draw ten times that, but its unlikely every house will do that at the same time, so it's just like a contention ratio on a network.

Now imagine everyone charges their car, even if it's only for an hour, but when they get home at 7pm, same time as putting on the kettle and the oven, that's way higher than the substation can provide.

One study put a fully electric car/heatpump/cooking about 4 times the peak demand of an ice/gas heating house, even if total usage is only twice as much, and total energy use is far less than with ICE/gas. Throw in solar and it reduces the total power drawn from the grid, but not the peak amount. Drawing 20kW for one hour is far more expensive to service than drawing 1kW for 24 hours, but uses less energy.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#202

Post by Yizahi »

I also find deeply and even extremely ironic, that the same greenwashing radicals who bash ACs in Europe are then supporting "heat pumps" as a modern and efficient heating device. There are even programs labelled as Eco or green or whatever the jargon of the day is, to subsidize or finance heat pumps.

People are seemingly unaware that heat pumps are just an AC with a tiny additional valve in the pipes :) .

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#203

Post by ElectricalUnion »

roelschroeven wrote: post #58
elil17 wrote: post #9

Cooling technologies are a necessity and air conditioning is one of many possible options. Europe north of France is substantially cooler than much of the US, even on the hottest days. Many homes could get by on ceiling fans, but they are very uncommon here.

A couple of years ago that would have been correct, but circumstances have changed. We've had a series of heat waves this summer, and temperatures have gotten very high inside. Much depends on the location of course, and the type of building, and stuff like that, but the fact is that in Belgium alone thousands of people have died because of the heat. Thousands of people that would still be with us if they would have…

Around and above 40°C, fans _are_ worse that useless - they may actively be killing you instead.

> Use electric fans only when temperatures are below 40˚C / 104˚F. In temperatures above 40˚C / 104˚F, fans will heat the body.

- https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-cha...

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#205

Post by titzer »

raincom wrote: post #176
titzer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really so hard to put a small fence around it to hide the ugly?

Fencing AC units is a very bad idea, as they just cause air flow problems. After all, air and refrigerant circuit exchange heat.

Obviously, people thought about this, and there are lots of fence designs that admit plenty of airflow and lots of products ready-made for this already.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#206

Post by michelsedgh »

kalleboo wrote: post #113
michelsedgh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these countries are pushing EV's so I don't understand how it could be about energy use lol?

EVs use less energy than ICE cars, they are more efficient.

Most EV chargers are burning gas to charge the ev cars. Thats just wasting energy. Almost any fast charger ive used has a gas generator next to it.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#207

Post by pessimizer »

Arodex wrote: post #8

First words from the article: >Yet as heat waves kill tens of thousands of Europeans each year ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett? Last words from the article: >But forgoing air conditioning is a refusal to move on from a lethally hot past. Gee, I wonder if this global warming thing wasn't a mistake to let happen... If that author is right,…

> ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett?

Are you considering answering this question? Was it the case fifty years ago? Did anything change?

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#208

Post by [deleted] »

xattt wrote: post #134
margor wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most of the buildings from communism era - all the utilities run through the apartments anyway and there is absolutely no place or way to retrofit these utilities without extensively either re-doing it from scratch, or trying to somehow retrofit it on the outside. All of these options are a non-starter considering basic AC starts from $500. Why should anyone invest more than that?

Many communist-era buildings had a service shaft the width of the back wall of the toilet closet (yes, bathroom and toilet are separate rooms). This was hidden from everyday view with large cabinet doors. A national-scale project can likely package cooling for these shafts, possibly emanating from rooftop units.

[deleted]

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#209

Post by raincom »

t_mahmood wrote: post #162
piskov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooling the air by definition raises the humidity :-) Dehumidifier mode in AC works by cooling the air below the dew point, removing the condensation, then warming the air up (either by itself or literally heating it up)

But for dehumidifier in AC, the heat is dispensed through the outdoor unit, so end result actually cools the house. I use our AC in dehumidifier mode, also, as I understand it has less power consumption (please correct me if I am wrong). In my experience, it cools down the room pretty well

I won't say "less power consumption". Definitely, not more consumption if efficient controls and motors are used (ECM motors for air handlers, VFD compressors).

The real problem is the repair costs of these advanced units in the developed countries. Carrier wanted $8k for a new control board for a residential unit in the US. Same thing for ECM/VFD.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#210

Post by elil17 »

numpad0 wrote: post #82
elil17 wrote: post #9

Cooling technologies are a necessity and air conditioning is one of many possible options. Europe north of France is substantially cooler than much of the US, even on the hottest days. Many homes could get by on ceiling fans, but they are very uncommon here.

Forced air cooling require air to be colder than the heatsink surface and evaporative cooling require relative humidity to be less than 100%. I don't know how bad the situation in Europe is, but we're already at point where there are times and places on Earth where one can construct a primal instinctive understanding of that by simply walking out of an air conditioned room(to which you SHOULD return within half an ho…

> I don't know how bad the situation in Europe is

Yeah there are those places, and northern Europe is not one of them!

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