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Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

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Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#181

Post by roter »

t_mahmood wrote: post #141

Right now in my city it's 30c, with 79% humidity, and real feel is 41c, and it's late evening. And, next year it's probably going to be worse. I can see things going really bad for health compromised people pretty soon. And, we have a flaky electricity, without enough focus or renewables, so, because of war(money)games in the middle east we have a huge gas crisis, and having one/two hours of load-shading every day. S…

Most building professionals, urban/city/master planners/engineers are explicitly incorporating resilience into their designs at all levels. This includes both new designs and retrofitting old buildings.

Places of emergency cooling refuge, parks, backup power to ensure energy/water continue, passive features like solar heating, natural ventilation, bioswales, air quality filtering, cool roofs/roads, water features, overhangs/louvers/awnings, insulation, thermal mass, etc, etc.

These are things grass roots can do now to mitigate impacts while governments dither and punt hard decisions into the future.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#182

Post by rdtsc »

t_mahmood wrote: post #162
piskov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooling the air by definition raises the humidity :-) Dehumidifier mode in AC works by cooling the air below the dew point, removing the condensation, then warming the air up (either by itself or literally heating it up)

But for dehumidifier in AC, the heat is dispensed through the outdoor unit, so end result actually cools the house. I use our AC in dehumidifier mode, also, as I understand it has less power consumption (please correct me if I am wrong). In my experience, it cools down the room pretty well

It really depends on the type of ac unit and conditions. If for example it has to cool it first to condense the moisture out and then also reheat it back to avoid blowing back air that’s too cold, it may consume more power even.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#183

Post by boxed »

danek_szy wrote: post #80
ane wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have very good thermal coeffiency: ground source heat pumps will typically generate 3-6kWh of thermal energy from 1kWh of electricity. By reversing the flow you can also use ground source heat pumps for cooling as well.

Doesn't sound like "basically free" to me... It still uses electricity, which doesn't help with climate change (even if it mostly comes from renewables).

Normally with ground heat exchange you cool down the hole so the system becomes less efficient over time. With cooling of your house that extra heat goes down the hole again. That ends up being almost free over the lifetime of the entire system.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#184

Post by utopiah »

yoz-y wrote: post #124
utopiah wrote: post #108

Very strange take, you can buy an airco unit in the EU today get it delivered tomorrow morning and, assuming it's the portable kind that just need to be plugged and exhaust outside, have it running right away. For more permanent ones you might need a professional to install it if you don't know yourself. There is absolutely 0 barrier if you need or even just want one. Proof in Belgium : https://www.coolblue.be/en/air…

I live in France. That kind of aircon is garbage both in how much it can cool a room and how efficient it is due to under pressure. You can get a portable split-system if you have a balcony. But installing a real full-size AC with a large external unit is prohibited in most cases. If you’re renting you’re of course out of luck. An apartment, even one you own-forget it.

Well that is a different setup that what I mention but thanks for indeed highlighting how they are not the same.

FWIW houses in Tuscany with very strict rules, e.g. you don't even get to pick the color of your own house, manage to get the entire place setup with full-size AC it's feasible. What's not feasible is trying to ignore laws on what a building must look like but that has nothing to do with air conditioning. For example if Belgium if you has is classified as notable (most old houses are) then you need a permit even for the window frame.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#185

Post by elil17 »

lstodd wrote: post #105
elil17 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate how powerful ceiling fans can be. The highest temperature in Sweden this year was only 36, you would be absolutely fine with a ceiling fan unless you wanted to exercise. That said, if you are able to get a ground source heat pump, that's awesome, but it's something like 10x to 20x the price of even a really good ceiling fan.

Ceiling (or for that matter any) fans work on your own evaporation. So unless you accept unacceptable levels of humidity or acclimatized to much hotter climate than Sweden and are there for a short time they are not a solution. Ground source is overhyped and overpriced. District heating and air-exchange AC is still the winning solution.

Unacceptable levels of humidity? You can just open your window when the sun goes down to vent off the heat and humidity that built up during the day.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#186

Post by deanc »

matt-p wrote: post #165
deanc wrote: post #4

We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building. I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony railings that face outwards as it ruins the "look". Given almost all apartment buildings are built consistently between every floor they could ensure co…

You say stupid, but I actually would find it sad to see beautiful buildings that are in many cases hundreds of years old defaced with loads of small condensers bolted on to the face. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have A/C but rather all flats use one system with a large roof condenser, or where that is not possible district cooling or ground source.

I'm not talking about historic buildings that are hundreds of years old. I live in Finland - we don't have many of these. Almost all apartments are built after the 60s outside the downtown and look like concrete boxes.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#187

Post by dguest »

slfnflctd wrote: post #64

I've been thinking for a while about whether it would be feasible to produce an affordable 'personal cooling chamber' for lower income people in places getting scorched in the summer that don't have A/C. Basically an automotive air conditioning unit hooked up to a battery and solar panel, with a tanning bed type form factor (up to maybe capsule hotel size), painted or coated to reflect light & heat. Highly portable.…

Stick your feet in a bucket of water. My colleague does it: it's magical.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#189

Post by crossroadsguy »

deanc wrote: post #4

We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building. I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony railings that face outwards as it ruins the "look". Given almost all apartment buildings are built consistently between every floor they could ensure co…

> I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony

In medieval times, not after, I hope.

Re: Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity

#190

Post by dguest »

tempfile wrote: post #120

> HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute You are reading propaganda.

Kind of interesting to think about why an American libertarian think tank would be writing articles about Europe. Is it just to give Americans talking points against whatever europhile they might encounter, or does Cato actually care about European policy now?
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