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CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

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Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#471

Post by piltdownman »

crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

In terms of 'automating' Leadership, it's self-evident that Agentic AI is more than capable of inferring context and providing insight based on its significant business administration and management corpus. From this it can suggest actions, follow-up via a plethora of mediums and APIs, and generate up to the minute reporting on a variety of KPIs.

In terms of replacing the function of a Leader, however, the reality is closer to that old joke about the Theoretical Physicist and the farmer - "I have a solution, but it only works for a spherical cow in a vacuum".

The last thing I'd trust to navigate the Realpolitik of modern globalised business is a language model distilled by an Individual Contributor. When Agentic AI navigates moral hazard, it does so as a cosplayer at best - the final actualisation of Dramaturgical sociology.

In fact, Erving Goffman's original Theatrical Metaphors from his 1959 opus 'The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life' map almost directly to the ludicrous symbiotic relationship defined by impression management on both sides of the prompt: AI systems aligning themselves by aping linguistic cues and saccharine affirmations, while users are effectively required to rephrase or reframe prompts to the point of absurdity in order to elicit the desired response, or otherwise navigate guardrails.

Idealized organizations are not perfect. They are perfectly pathological. The top tier are effectively sociopaths operating under conditions of serious moral hazard. If Agentic AI becomes an able replacement, everyone dies.

https://ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-t...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_Anyone_Builds_It,_Everyone_...

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#472

Post by senordevnyc »

gosub100 wrote: post #429
philipallstar wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

he didn't say "everything" he said one thing.

In my experience, these class warfare conspiracists see class warfare in everything. Everything in human society gets reduced down to one side is the oppressor and one side is the victim. And they’re always the victim.

EDIT since I can’t reply:

It’s true that capital and labor often have competing goals, but they also have alignment at times. And labor also has different goals from consumers, from other groups of labor, etc. Capital owners are also in fierce competition with each other! And many individuals in the world are playing multiple roles in the system at the same time! I’m a consumer, a capital owner, a CEO, a wage worker, etc, all at the same time. I also have a bunch of stakeholders that I answer to: customers, investors, employees, the government, etc.

So I object to the simplification of reducing a global system of ten billion humans with their own agency and circumstances, all collapsed down to one side vs another side, with the capital class in conspiratorial lockstep with each other, when the reality is much more complicated and interdependent.

I also object to the constant claims of conspiracy among capital holders. Capital holders are also in extremely fierce competition with each other, and they are in turn beholden to consumers / buyers, etc.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#473

Post by CSSer »

rickydroll wrote: post #468
throwatdem12311 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luigi Mangione pleaded guilty.

The U.S. justice system is notorious for pushing people to plead guilty when they really aren't, or for cases involving extenuating circumstances. The apparent facts bear out that Luigi is guilty of killing that executive, but since it was an executive in a position of making decisions that damaged or ended the lives of hundreds, if not thousands, of people, they would give him a pass (and directions to other executi…

> The apparent facts bear out that Luigi is guilty of killing that executive

And he pleaded guilty. There’s nothing “alleged” about this conversation, despite feelings about any other aspects of it.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#474

Post by senordevnyc »

rolandog wrote: post #442
techsystems wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is literature concensus that at least in the US, non-US born CEOs are the best, and there is little relation between founders -> CEOs and good company performance on multiple metrics.

They can be the best at bringing in shareholder value, which would have a great correlation with enshittification. Having the ability to reduce the quality of something so that customers barely stay (or have no where else to go because they have been trapped in a monopoly or a walled garden) is not a skill. I'd argue it is a trait out of cartoon villains.

We watched very different cartoons.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#475

Post by malux85 »

petcat wrote: post #467
crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

> I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs I have the opposite opinion. I've never been a CEO, and have intentionally avoided any sort of manager/C-level opportunities at all the various companies I've worked specifically because they require a lot of effort at personnel management, investor relationships, customer relationships, and generally things requiring having to talk to people . That kind of thing j…

Exactly. Being a good CEO means reading the body language of your programmers so you can tell when they need support. It means communicating competence to investors and customers. It means making complex decisions with incomplete input, a lot of the time deep intuitions are required. It means having the good sense of judgement. Part of the time you are tyrant, part of the time you are parent, part of the time you are psychologist, mentor, master, healer, empath, judge and jury, and the most important part : is knowing that ALL of this is REQUIRED to be human actions and a little text input spitting out (even under ideal conditions - excellent) quality text to the above is definitely not going to work because every good CEO knows that its 50% the message you deliver, and 50% the delivery that matters.

And also being a technical founder with 20 years coding experience, I dont think AI can replace programmers for a set of different but equally valid reasons.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#476

Post by DanielHB »

whstl wrote: post #381
DanielHB wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno most CEOs I have been under of seem to work really hard and try to get stuff done in a sane manner, it is usually the middle management that fs up. CEO is, of course, partly responsible for having that middle management in the first place. However if I were the CEO I don't even know how I would be able to smell the rats with the top-down view that CEOs have (they can't be in every meeting and decision making…

I've been in a situation where I had to work directly with a good CEO (plus board, C-Levels, and a lot of middle-management) and problematic middle-management was the actual problem. It was almost like parody: - CEO wanting people to leave at 5 sharp, middle-management inventing work and forcing people to do overtime and telling people "he's the CEO, he can leave at 5, he doesn't know we have a lot of work to do". -…

Yeah this is what I have seen in the orgs I been in too (although not as bad as you pointed out), I have also seen CEOs fail by inaction like you pointed out (not laying off people doing bad things).

Although I am more afraid of the middle manager who hides information than the CEO who doesn't act on it.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#477

Post by senordevnyc »

p_j_w wrote: post #447
philipallstar wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Brian Thompson killed more people than Luigi.

No, he didn’t. Not by any logic that doesn’t also implicate every other executive, employee, vendor, and customer of every health insurance company, plus a huge number of other industries. To the point where the blame is so diffuse that it’s a pointless exercise.

Edit since I can’t reply: if “murderer” means someone who takes actions that have nth-order effects of someone dying, with no reasonable or discernible limit on n, then we’re all murderers and the term means nothing.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#478

Post by fwip »

petcat wrote: post #467
crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

> I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs I have the opposite opinion. I've never been a CEO, and have intentionally avoided any sort of manager/C-level opportunities at all the various companies I've worked specifically because they require a lot of effort at personnel management, investor relationships, customer relationships, and generally things requiring having to talk to people . That kind of thing j…

Genuine question: am I missing some sarcasm here? When you say a CEO has to "talk to people", and then say it can't be done by a chat bot. That's literally the only thing a chat bot can do.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#479

Post by lc9er »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #84
HomeDeLaPot wrote: post #82

When will we see the world's first fully autonomous company?

If you want to see that idea extrapolated to an impressive extent, check out Accelerando by Charles Stross. If Stross was right we're in for a bumpy ride.

It was definitely not a hopeful glimpse into the future.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#480

Post by DanielHB »

kakacik wrote: post #384
nickff wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> qIf you have the right underlings (or inherit them) you might actually not need to do anything at all and succeed. Then again if you have the wrong underlings (or inherit them) then your job is hella-difficult.” I think this paragraph is right on the money, but the ‘leader’ has more influence on their ‘underlings’ than you give them credit for. In this vein, I highly recommend “Turn the Ship Around!” by Marquet, wh…

Yeah if new CEO gives the middle management mission in the lines of - we need high productivity, lets be nice and supportive to our teams to get the best out of them since we believe core of our employees are smart hard working folks, it trickles down into thousand little (and not so little things). Reverse also trickles some brown stuff down. CEO who doesn't care about that leaves stuff to middle management, who are…

Yeah it is that old saying, the best person to wield power is the one that doesn't want it. High pay and bonuses get rats into the ship, low pay makes no competent sailor want to join your crew.
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