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U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#661

Post by foltik »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #562
epistasis wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How, in any way does this help the wellbeing of a citizen? Why bring up that very strange point, which is completely unconnected to the massive harm here. If anything, these policies harm the citizens of the US in a myriad of ways. There's zero benefit to be had from any of this. Except for the joy tha tthe cruel feel in causing others misery, but that's not citizens, that's just a few sick people.

>There's zero benefit to be had from any of this. From the article: "Updated guidance and training were being put in place to ensure that visa applicants don’t become a public charge under U.S. law or depend on government benefits intended for Americans in need, a spokesman for the department said Wednesday."

The implication that visa applicants are receiving government benefits intended for Americans is completely unsubstantiated.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#662

Post by dyauspitr »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #447
dyauspitr wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hiring manager no one tells you who is an immigrant and who isn’t when you interview them.

As an interviewee I've read "we're not sponsoring visas at this time" a million times.

At the HR/JD level, not at the actual interview.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#663

Post by ab8 »

affyboi wrote: post #463
nekusar wrote: post #291

Well, for starters, good. We all know this whole H1-B situation was to cripple wages and to get an indentured workforce. Glad its being "paused". Would love to it being modified to not being tied to a company, or gottennrid of for good. Sorry about the people who were using it, but also not sorry. Maybe we Americans can get some of those jobs the companies were scamming the govt with.

I think the correct move would be to enforce wage parity for the H1Bs rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water. I don’t want to lose out on international talent for the sake of protecting employment for people whose only qualification is where their mother gave birth.

H1-Bs are usually paid MORE, not less, because of wage parity laws that have existed for DECADES. The application process has a 6 month delay just to determine the minimum wage that the government forces employers to pay.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#664

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

cloverich wrote: post #635
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is sufficiently incoherent as to suggest you aren't interested in the serious discussion you are requesting in response. You could better refute this by starting with a policy you would consider cruel, and the in turn demonstrating how this one doesn't fit it. Historically i've tended to agree that "the cruelty is the point" was too dismissive for the policies in question. But with immigration policy of this admin…

>You could better refute this by starting with a policy you would consider cruel, and the in turn demonstrating how this one doesn't fit it.

I actually don't think it is that common for policy to be cruel just for the sake of being cruel ("the cruelty is the point")

>For a while they were deporting people to the equivalent of a Gulag, and literally suggested that if people were afraid of that outcome they should self deport. I think that would be a pretty fair example of a policy where the cruelty was the literal point: The hope was it would be viewed with sufficient fear as to dissuade people from staying in the country illegally.

The point of law enforcement is to deter and prevent lawbreaking, not be cruel for its own sake. Suppose you observe that meals in prison aren't very tasty. Would you criticize this policy on the grounds that "the cruelty is the point"?

You can argue that the punishment is too harsh, but that still doesn't prove that cruelty was the point.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#665

Post by dyauspitr »

BobbyJo wrote: post #564
paxys wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The impact on academics and research has already been felt over the last decade. US used to be the default destination for academics and skilled workers from China ever since the cultural revolution. They engrained themselves in the country, studied/worked at top univerities, taught multiple generations of students, did key research, worked at top tech companies, and overall were major contributors to American techno…

You can't ignore the impact of China also becoming a better place to live as well. China is a different place no than it was 20 years ago, and the need to go overseas anywhere is probably felt less today than back then.

Salaries are still very low (like 10x lower) compared to the US.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#666

Post by itake »

ab8 wrote: post #646
itake wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American that lives abroad. I have first-hand experience how other countries treat 'immigrants'. H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. I could never imagine myself buying a home in a country where I don't have permanent access to that real estate. I am not opposed to voting to prevent non-PRs from owning real estate in order to keep housing prices lower for residents and prevent non-immigrants from shooting t…

(a) The WSJ article is talking about "immigrant visas" a.k.a. green cards, not H1-Bs. (b) Even if we are talking about H1-Bs, it takes someone in India 10-15 years of waiting in line to get a green card. If someone were to buy a house in the interim, it doesn't seem so irrational to me. Its easy to blame the victim and say they should have known.

(a) I responded to OP's comment about H1-Bs, not the article itself. Even then, presumably, they paused processing new visa and the people that have already obtained them may continue to stay. If they fail to renew GC during this time, I agree that is a dark issue.

(b) If I enter China on a temporary work permit visa, with a 15 year plan to obtain Chinese citizenship, no one will have sympathy for me if that plan is interrupted by legal, political, economic changes. Since I full well knew my current status and the risks of failing to obtain Chinese citizenship.

Just because there is a possibility in the distant future for permanence, doesn't mean you can safely backdate it to today.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#667

Post by rayiner »

assemblyman wrote: post #623
lanstin wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people that support these cruel and chaotic changes to our immigration laws and they are mostly xenophobic - they don’t like people speaking languages other than English at the store, they don’t like religions different than their own, they don’t like family traditions different than their own.

This might seem like an academic point but the support of all xenophobic people for these changes doesn't imply that some non-xenophobes don't support these changes (or ones in the same spirit) as well. I don't know what the relative numbers are, but the support of a negative group for a cause doesn't invalidate the cause. US immigration can be very slow and bureaucratic (even pre-Trump). I hesitate to say but genera…

> This might seem like an academic point but the support of all xenophobic people for these changes doesn't imply that some non-xenophobes don't support these changes (or ones in the same spirit) as well.

Americans aren't "xenophobic." I just got back from two weeks in rural Texas and everyone was super nice to me. Nobody was "afraid" that I'm a foreigner. They just don't want me to bring my entire extended family over and in numbers that changes the culture of their home. And people in my dad's village in Bangladesh would hate if some other group did the same thing to them.

People throwing around “phobia” and “ism” is just a way to obscure what they really mean, which is cultural relativism and erasure of the distinction between citizens and foreigners.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#668

Post by dyauspitr »

ipnon wrote: post #262
dyauspitr wrote: post #29

50% of all American unicorns were started by immigrants. This is sheer stupidity to prevent the best of what the world has to offer when they are knocking at your door.

[flagged]

No one just starts companies as soon as they land. It takes decades of hard work and building yourself before they are at a point where they can start companies.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#669

Post by make3 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #525
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #345

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

An H-1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. You're not supposed to rely on it to build a life in the US with no backup plan; that was never the intent of the law. However, successive administrations ignored the intent of the law, for so long that people began to rely on assurances that the law never promised. Now that the law is getting applied properly, those people are facing the consequences. It sucks for them, but…

brother H-1Bs are transparently vectors for foreign educated workers to come to the US to build lives and eventually get a green card, so the US doesn't have to actually build a functional education system.

no one talented will come pay taxes and make your nice tech companies carry the S&P500 and in turn, everyone's retirement funds, if you treat them like hogs

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#670

Post by rayiner »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #589
rayiner wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenophobia is about assuming that people are different because of their national origin. It's not "xenophobia" if there are actual differences, especially if there are actual changes to someone's society. Treating all cultural differences as equally desirable is cultural relativism. Not everyone who rejects cultural relativism is xenophobic. You're allowed to prefer your own culture and to live in a society that refl…

You’ve successfully mangled the definition of xenophobia. “A strong aversion, antipathy, or fear of foreigners.” Simple as. It wouldn’t be wrong if you admitted that you want some degree of xenophobia. But I suppose that sounds even less convincing than your preferred abuse of terminology.

> “A strong aversion, antipathy, or fear of foreigners.”

Yes, it's antipathy to foreigners in and of themselves. It's antipathy based on the mere fact that someone is a foreigner by stereotyping them based on nationality. Antipathy based on actual cultural differences.

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