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U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#621

Post by [deleted] »

brookst wrote: post #596
rayiner wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral issue is the same in both cases: there’s a big sign that says “temporary.” People have chosen to ignore the sign.

Do you think the moral issue is the same if someone fails to hold a door for you, or if they shoot you? It’s rude either way, right? I don’t have words for it, but the US has been infected with some kind of hybrid reductionism / nihilism where people think that vicious bad behavior can be enjoyed and justified, even righteously glorified, if a disingenuous analogy can somehow be crafted to something banal and compara…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#622

Post by jmyeet »

eluusive wrote: post #304

This is a response to the supreme court ruling on birthright citizenship. They're using the levers they do have, since that was removed. Anyone who agrees with the ruling should really read justice Thomas' dissent.

No, it's not. This seems to be Stephen Miller's baby and the efforts to limit legal immigration (see my other comment) predate the birthright citizenship case and pretty much started day 1 of the administration. Birthright citizenship is really part of that.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#623

Post by rayiner »

earthdeity wrote: post #604
rayiner wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “cruelty” to have and enforce rules. The words “temporary” and “nonimmigrant” is plastered all over the laws that govern these visas. People shouldn’t have treated them as permanent immigration visas. And employers shouldn’t have mislead employees into thinking these were permanent immigration visas. It’s like saying that it’s “cruelty” to remove someone who uses a 2 hour parking spot as their permanent car…

Rules are well and good, but norms are important too. An immigration system governs people making major life choices, and companies making large investments. Legally, there's very little the state can't do, there could be a bill passed tomorrow revoking all immigrant visas. But businesses, and by proxy the nation, benefit from work done by these workers. Sudden unilateral moves like this are stupid on a social level…

> Rules are well and good, but norms are important too

Not when the norm is open defiance of the rules for decades.

> An immigration system governs people making major life choices, and companies making large investments.

And it also governs the right of people to decide who they want to invite into their country and, ultimately, with whom they want to share democratic governance of their home. Those are important stakes, not to be minimized. But you neglected to mention them.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#624

Post by roarcher »

alexgoodhart wrote: post #566
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #344

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

“Feels intentionally cruel”? Where have you been? There is so much evidence of the deliberate cruelty that it beggars belief you’d say that.

So you agree with the person you're responding to, but you're attacking them for stating it with less melodrama than you would prefer? What a useless comment.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#625

Post by blovescoffee »

rayiner wrote: post #609
thayne wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if legal immigration were more achievable we wouldn't have so many illegal immigrants.

Immigration laws are like any other licensing or permitting regime. Controlling "who" and "how many" is the whole point. Making legal immigration easier doesn't solve the problem, it defeats the purpose.

The laws should produce friction but the right friction in the right places. There are too many arbitrary and difficult processes in the US immigration system that keep great people out of the US.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#626

Post by foltik »

consensus1 wrote: post #429
kashunstva wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you would admit that this Administration’s approach to immigration has been both chaotic and cruel. The workers who were given status in the United States expected a predictable process, not one that changes weekly based on the unserious personal whims of a bored, ill-informed and vindictive man. In any case, the prioritization of citizens’ wellbeing writ large is demonstrably _not_ a feature of this Administr…

The entire point of a temporary visa is that the host country can refuse to renew and force you to leave the country at their whim. When you apply for such a visa you accept those terms.

The entire point of a temporary visa is for the country to benefit from your labor. How does canceling it on a “whim” benefit anybody?

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#627

Post by ab8 »

itake wrote: post #481
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #344

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

I'm an American that lives abroad. I have first-hand experience how other countries treat 'immigrants'. H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. I could never imagine myself buying a home in a country where I don't have permanent access to that real estate. I am not opposed to voting to prevent non-PRs from owning real estate in order to keep housing prices lower for residents and prevent non-immigrants from shooting t…

(a) The WSJ article is talking about "immigrant visas" a.k.a. green cards, not H1-Bs.

(b) Even if we are talking about H1-Bs, it takes someone in India 10-15 years of waiting in line to get a green card. If someone were to buy a house in the interim, it doesn't seem so irrational to me.

Its easy to blame the victim and say they should have known.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#628

Post by ab8 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #519
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #344

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

An H-1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. You're not supposed to rely on it to build a life in the US with no backup plan; that was never the intent of the law. However, successive administrations ignored the intent of the law, for so long that people began to rely on assurances that the law never promised. Now that the law is getting applied properly, those people are facing the consequences. It sucks for them, but…

Thanks for the info. But the WSJ article is taking about green card appointments, not H1-Bs.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#629

Post by ab8 »

unselect5917 wrote: post #54
miltonlost wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's on the Trump administration being full of racists and white nationalists and wanting to deport immigrants. Why do you wonder if it's economic instead of the Trump administration's announced policies of stopping immigration, including unconstitutionally removing birthright citizenship?

Conflating not wanting to compete with foreigners for jobs in your own country with racism is bad faith bullshit. Foreigners of the exact same race are equally unwanted competition.

Its only racism when you then go and invite white south africans in. And make statements like "Why cant we have more people come in from countries like Norway"

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#630

Post by MisterMower »

totetsu wrote: post #581
MisterMower wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dollars and people are not the same thing. I’m not sure how you can even make the claim that they could be or even should be.

Thats the amazing part of a diverse society, there is a variety of opinions and world views that you can come across that that might even be completely outside your current understanding. As by being curious and trying to understand something surprising you might just gain a new and deeper understanding of the world.

Most folks don’t want their minds opened to new and surprising views and opinions. They want a good job in the town they grew up in so they can take care of their family and raise their kids in the culture they were raised in.

Globalism has ruined that entirely, and there’s no amount of implying these people are closed minded or incurious that will make them change their mind on this issue.

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