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IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

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Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#61
post #38
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were pretty clear at Hot Chips that it's native

.... I -so- miss RealWorldTech write-ups, I'd love to see what David Kanter would have to say about this thing...

David recently announced he was leaving MLCommons, so maybe we'll get him back as an industry analyst.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#62
post #8
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already microcontrollers that have both arm + riscv support. This isn't something insane.

RP2350 has separate cores for that. This is one core that speaks both.

To my understanding, the RP2350 has two ARM cores and two RISC-V cores, the two pairs are separate, and only one architecture can be used at a time on the chip.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#63
post #9
post #2

I was reading HN comments yesterday shitting on modern IBM for being a non tech consulting company that has not innovated since the mid nineties.

well that's nonsense. IBM does incredibly cool stuff. https://research.ibm.com/blog

What does IBM actually do? I just can never understand their business and operating model. It seems like they just do a bunch of random stuff and sell to the most enterprisey of enterprises.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#64
post #62
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RP2350 has separate cores for that. This is one core that speaks both.

To my understanding, the RP2350 has two ARM cores and two RISC-V cores, the two pairs are separate, and only one architecture can be used at a time on the chip.

nope. two "slots", each selectable from {ARM, RISCV}. In each, you pick one. so you can configure it at two arm cores, arm + riscv, or two riscv cores. dual-arch is possible, if you desire it

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#65
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARM has better software support for AI applications and half of their presentation was about their inference accelerators that can go in the mainframes (and POWER machines). IBM mainframes are almost designed by their users. The previous generation skipped a lot of speed boost on the CPU side because their users didn’t want the machine to blow over their power delivery limits. Now, with their architecture behind it,…

At least back in the day, there was talk about Nvidia + ppc64le. Wasn't there even a supercomputer with that setup? But I guess that has fallen by the wayside.

In 2019 the two fastest machines in the world, Summit & Sierra (see top500.org) used ppc64le + Nvidia GPUs.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#66
post #63
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well that's nonsense. IBM does incredibly cool stuff. https://research.ibm.com/blog

What does IBM actually do? I just can never understand their business and operating model. It seems like they just do a bunch of random stuff and sell to the most enterprisey of enterprises.

Much like Oracle, they extract money from companies trapped on Db2

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#67
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, their cache work is undeniably really cool. That being said I think it's a natural consequence of the difference between a mainframe and commodity servers. A mainframe is going to be running pretty disparate workloads simultaneously, so it makes sense to steal from your neighbor if they aren't using their cache. Whereas it's more likely that a commodity server is just running the same server on each core, and i…

Even though their CPUs are insanely fast, the real power of mainframes is in their IO. The amount of data you can push through those machines is absolutely mind blowing.

Historically this was because each I/O "channel" was a separate computer that handled the actual communication with the device, be it a terminal, disk, tape drive, card reader, printer, etc. and exchange data with the CPU via DMA. This allowed mainframe CPUs, which in the past weren't particularly fast, to handle huge workloads involving hundreds or thousands of users. These days, even commodity computers get blazing fast I/O to bus mastering devices. Where the mainframes win today is on reliability, built-in redundancy, hot-pluggability and expandability of components (you can just plug in CPUs, memory, disks, and network interfaces as long as you can afford them with the machine still running), and service and support. (Mainframes phone home immediately if they detect problems and an IBM service person will be on site the same day to fix it.)

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#68
post #30

Huh. ARM instead of ppc64le?

ARM has better software support for AI applications and half of their presentation was about their inference accelerators that can go in the mainframes (and POWER machines). IBM mainframes are almost designed by their users. The previous generation skipped a lot of speed boost on the CPU side because their users didn’t want the machine to blow over their power delivery limits. Now, with their architecture behind it,…

Does anyone else make an ARM CPU that is expressly designed for performance with good cooling ?

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#69
post #21
post #2

I was reading HN comments yesterday shitting on modern IBM for being a non tech consulting company that has not innovated since the mid nineties.

The z mainframe team does good technical work but then the high price cancels out all the value of that work. I'm not sure if that counts as innovation or not.

A single mainframe can handle workloads that would take dozens of x86 cloud servers, with nine nines of uptime. If you can afford it it pays for itself in terms of reliability and scalability.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#70
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those ARM and s390x decoders have a “Telum III” architecture behind them with a cache that’s pretty innovative. IBM has never stopped innovating. It’s just that most people can’t afford their machines.

Yeah, their cache work is undeniably really cool. That being said I think it's a natural consequence of the difference between a mainframe and commodity servers. A mainframe is going to be running pretty disparate workloads simultaneously, so it makes sense to steal from your neighbor if they aren't using their cache. Whereas it's more likely that a commodity server is just running the same server on each core, and i…

What's unique about their cache ?
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