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11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

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Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#91

Post by MomsAVoxell »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #63
bcraven wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend everyone watch the documentary First Footprints[0], it is the most wondrous thing I have ever seen. The simple answer is that some storied reference events that happened that long ago.[1] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n6VJ5jq7zY [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/aboriginal-tale-anci...

> The simple answer is that some storied reference events that happened that long ago. This is another thing that you can't know. If there is a match between an inferred geological event and a mythological event, you'd still have to ask "what is the rate of this happening by coincidence?"

Your mistake is leaning on the mythology, having, it seems, not actually listened to the songs and stories yourself, directly.

There is no coincidence - the song lines record real geological events, such as the lowering of the oceans, the formations of islands, the drying up of lakes - on an ancient timeline - all of which are verified in the geological record.

Please, do not lean so hard on the petard of treating this subject as one of methods and coincidence.

These are real cultural artifacts, which encode real events.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#92

Post by MomsAVoxell »

lukan wrote: post #70
thaumasiotes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The simple answer is that some storied reference events that happened that long ago. This is another thing that you can't know. If there is a match between an inferred geological event and a mythological event, you'd still have to ask "what is the rate of this happening by coincidence?"

And then you'd still have to ask yourself, whether anything is real or a simulation, or a dream of god, etc. Otherwise history is indeed much guesswork, as we don't have a timemachine and rely on lot's of indirect evidence for everything.

This is like looking at a seismograph or an electrocardiogram and concluding that it doesn’t represent anything worth knowing “because nothing is real”, “they were just dreaming because they were primitive”, or “we don’t have a to prove these stories”.

We do have methods of proving these stories - we can dig trenches and see the history as it was described, in the land itself.

Please, do not dismiss this on the basis of some authoritarian postulates about not having developed your own cultures time machines. Song lines literally are a verifiable time record.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#93

Post by quickthrowman »

Zigurd wrote: post #22

"Hold my..." checks notes, yeah it's a couple thousand years earlier and near enough "...beer and watch this!"

Haha, I had a similar thought.

EXT DAYTIME - SUNNY

An athletic man wearing a thin leather tunic crouches behind a leopard, facing the camera.

“Hi, I’m Mörêk, welcome to Jackass!”

Mörêk leaps forward and grabs onto the leopard, the leopard takes off running while Mörêk lets out a whoop and the opening bars of Corona start playing.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#94

Post by MomsAVoxell »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #53
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original caretakers of the Australian continent have been telling the same stories orally for 40,000 years. Let that sink in! It is extraordinary to me that they don't get as much clout as they deserve for maintaining human civilization for so long. They literally evolved cryptologically sound techniques for maintaining their history - through fires, floods, calamity and Mother Nature. We can't even keep our stor…

> the same stories orally for 40,000 years How is this confirmed without records?

The song lines literally are a record of what has happened to the land over these periods of times - supported by the geology itself.

The formation of islands, the kinds of animals that used to be found there, the movement of lakes, the lowering and raising of the oceans - these are all confirmed, recorded events.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#95

Post by MomsAVoxell »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #64
AlecSchueler wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same stories orally for 40,000 years How is this confirmed without records?

That's the beauty of the claim - it doesn't need to be confirmed!

And the ugliness of the counter-claim, which can affirm authority without having done any actual study of the subject.

The claims are confirmed.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#96

Post by thaumasiotes »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #91
thaumasiotes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The simple answer is that some storied reference events that happened that long ago. This is another thing that you can't know. If there is a match between an inferred geological event and a mythological event, you'd still have to ask "what is the rate of this happening by coincidence?"

Your mistake is leaning on the mythology, having, it seems, not actually listened to the songs and stories yourself, directly. There is no coincidence - the song lines record real geological events, such as the lowering of the oceans, the formations of islands, the drying up of lakes - on an ancient timeline - all of which are verified in the geological record. Please, do not lean so hard on the petard of treating th…

> These are real cultural artifacts, which encode real events.

The total amount of evidence for the second half of your claim is zero, and you should realize that.

It's something people want to believe, but it's not something there is any reason to believe.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#97

Post by avadodin »

doodlebugging wrote: post #80
hluska wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are pictures available. I’m certainly not an expert but he’s holding his stomach in one hand, giving himself a good tug with the other and looks somewhere between scared and confused. The leopard on the left is all smiles. There’s another dude standing a few figures away with his back turned to old tug-a-lug. He’s holding something and looks kind of ashamed though I could be reading that into the image since it…

After looking at the 3D relief of the guy with his pecker in his hand I feel like this was carved in the period immediately preceding the abandonment of the site in pre-history. I base that on the definition of the outlines of the leopards. It appears that initial work had started on giving each of them a 3D view as they are cut in along the margins of the belly and back. Maybe the entire panel would've been a 3D rel…

I don't think it is necessarily a sign of any tragic upheaval but to me that decline in carving quality indicates that the man wasn't meant to be part of a scene initially.

Perhaps an image of a God or a King.

The leopard-obsessed bunch showed up later and started drawing leopard graffiti around putting in far less effort.

That in itself could represent an invasion but it could also represent young people these days or even aligned additions to the King’s biography for reference.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#98

Post by avadodin »

doodlebugging wrote: post #78
ks2048 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And leopards were riding humans. Image on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karahan_Tepe

I'm not sure I would call that riding. With all the poses I suspect this was some odd-ball cult practice. I'm sure the archaeologist who had to polish that knob on that anthropomorphic figure in that one panel #3 has some good stories. Probably significant that its the smoothest part of that figure. The old joke about what they call a chicken fucker in Oklahoma comes to mind here except I think those pre-Turks were c…

I was going to say that these ancient furries were about as much proto-Italians if not more than proto-Turks but then I noticed you said pre so maybe you meant simply that they predate the Turkic invasions.

Re: 11,000-year-old sculpture of man riding a leopard found in Turkey

#100

Post by andsoitis »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #42
lproven wrote: post #8

The ancient Sumerians invented cuneiform writing about 5000-5500Y ago. This is as long before ancient Sumer as ancient Sumer is before us today. Mind-boggling.

The original caretakers of the Australian continent have been telling the same stories orally for 40,000 years. Let that sink in! It is extraordinary to me that they don't get as much clout as they deserve for maintaining human civilization for so long. They literally evolved cryptologically sound techniques for maintaining their history - through fires, floods, calamity and Mother Nature. We can't even keep our stor…

> The original caretakers of the Australian continent have been telling the same stories orally for 40,000 years.

The San have been around for over 100,000 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_peoples

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