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IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

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Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#21
post #2

I was reading HN comments yesterday shitting on modern IBM for being a non tech consulting company that has not innovated since the mid nineties.

The z mainframe team does good technical work but then the high price cancels out all the value of that work. I'm not sure if that counts as innovation or not.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#22
post #7
post #2

I was reading HN comments yesterday shitting on modern IBM for being a non tech consulting company that has not innovated since the mid nineties.

More like mid-2000s, even with the least charitable interpretation. There was a time when IBM dominated console CPUs for a massively successful generation (PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii).

Xbox 360 used an Intel CPU.

PS3 used the Cell processor but it’s debatable how much that was an asset vs handicap. Total PlayStation sales dropped for that generation vs both PS2 and PS4. The manufacturing costs didn’t fall nearly as fast as expected and it was a poor fit in terms of cross platform development etc.

PS4 moved to AMD.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#23
post #7
post #2

I was reading HN comments yesterday shitting on modern IBM for being a non tech consulting company that has not innovated since the mid nineties.

More like mid-2000s, even with the least charitable interpretation. There was a time when IBM dominated console CPUs for a massively successful generation (PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii).

Having a presence in the consumer market is not a requirement for being innovative.

IBM stopped building servers based on x86 because the margins were too thin for their tastes, but they never stopped building on top of POWER and Z.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#24
post #22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like mid-2000s, even with the least charitable interpretation. There was a time when IBM dominated console CPUs for a massively successful generation (PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii).

Xbox 360 used an Intel CPU. PS3 used the Cell processor but it’s debatable how much that was an asset vs handicap. Total PlayStation sales dropped for that generation vs both PS2 and PS4. The manufacturing costs didn’t fall nearly as fast as expected and it was a poor fit in terms of cross platform development etc. PS4 moved to AMD.

> Xbox 360 used an Intel CPU.

No. It was a PowerPC based one called, IIRC, Xenon.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#25
post #9
post #2

I was reading HN comments yesterday shitting on modern IBM for being a non tech consulting company that has not innovated since the mid nineties.

well that's nonsense. IBM does incredibly cool stuff. https://research.ibm.com/blog

Their research is usually behind paywalls. I miss the days when they published their journals and made PDFs available for download.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#26
post #4

Is this like the Transmeta processors doing code translation in hardware?

No, this is more like any modern processor, which translates instruction codes into micro-ops. To over-simplify IBM just has two of these units per thread rather than one.

I wonder how they handle potential differences in memory barriers, instruction order scheduling and other stuff and do they run the core in one mode continuously or do the mix instruction streams from different instruction sets? Anybody got a link to an article?

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#28
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were pretty clear at Hot Chips that it's native

"code translation in hardware" microcode is called "native"

Yep. All modern Intel and AMD architectures, save maybe some Atom variants, effectively JIT compile the incoming instructions. It's part of the reason the faster-than-static Java/JVM promises never came to fruition. The goal posts moved after the mainstream chips coopted the approach, in a sense, and they continue to move as pipelines get deeper and broader and transistor count goes up.

Transmeta was a classic failure--right idea, wrong place & time.

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#29
post #24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xbox 360 used an Intel CPU. PS3 used the Cell processor but it’s debatable how much that was an asset vs handicap. Total PlayStation sales dropped for that generation vs both PS2 and PS4. The manufacturing costs didn’t fall nearly as fast as expected and it was a poor fit in terms of cross platform development etc. PS4 moved to AMD.

> Xbox 360 used an Intel CPU. No. It was a PowerPC based one called, IIRC, Xenon.

Wow, you’re right.

Xeon vs Xenon

I had always assumed with chip names that similar it was an Intel product. How on earth didn’t they get sued?

Re: IBM Unveils Next Generation Dual-Architecture Processor for IBM Z and LinuxONE

#30

Huh. ARM instead of ppc64le?

ARM has better software support for AI applications and half of their presentation was about their inference accelerators that can go in the mainframes (and POWER machines).

IBM mainframes are almost designed by their users. The previous generation skipped a lot of speed boost on the CPU side because their users didn’t want the machine to blow over their power delivery limits.

Now, with their architecture behind it, I’m sure these ARM Linux partitions will have the fastest ARM cores ever made. My experience with Linux on s390x is that it feels like a normal server that’s just ludicrously fast - almost as if it came from the future.

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