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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#991

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most honest reading of the data is that it was neither bad nor good; that it had no impact on anything whatsoever. Whether you read this as a win for the Leave or Remain factions is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think that's an honest reading. If there were a wealth of data and analyses that suggested the UK's economy is larger because of brexit I could agree but I certainly can't find any. You're right to be skeptical of the doomsayers that predicted (and continue to predict) disaster, but it seems incredibly unlikely (and unsupported by data) that Brexit did nothing.

Why would you need to see evidence that the economy is larger because of Brexit when what I said was it made no difference, larger or smaller?

It only seems incredibly unlikely it did nothing because we were all subjected to industrial-scale propaganda claiming the effect would be huge. In hindsight it is obvious why there was no effect: the single market is only a single market for goods, but Britain primarily exports services.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#992
post #986

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand I estimate that between 50% and 200% of the taxes collected like this are wasted and not applied to their ultimate goals. The average collected amount per submission is so small that you cannot pay the bureaucrats managing the complex submissions from these sums. The point of this tax is not to raise revenue bit to disincentivize wate. Since the tax weight based, companies have an incentive to red…

Customers already pay for the disposal. You could achieve the same thing by requiring sellers to list in checkout how much the disposal of their packaging will cost. That's a 10 minute change for Claude Code, but of course then it would not give more money and power to the useless bureaucrats.

First of all that's a weaker signal to the manufacturer/seller to make changes as it'd only indirectly affect them.

It's also moot - in most (all?) European cities you only pay for waste but not recycling (paper, plastic, glas, aluminum, etc.). Those are free and paid for by exactly the kind of recycling fees we're discussing here.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#993
post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is a separate problem.

It should be a separate topic , yes. But calling it a "problem" is already the framing that pits locals against immigrants, distracting from what's really keeping people down. In fact, immigration is a solution to lots of actual problems. (For example demography and lack of economi growth.)

Yes, I am pitting locals against immigrants and I am calling them a problem, which they are. Immigration is absolutely disastrous for the average citizen who has to compete for housing and jobs.

Economic growth is pointless if it's only achieved by population growth. It is the wealth per person that counts, which will surely decrease when you import millions of people with few employable skills and their non-working families.

Demography is only a problem because our social systems are completely unsustainable pyramid schemes reliant on endless population growth. Every day that you try to delay its inevitable collapse with immigration will only make the problem worse down the line.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#994
post #993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a separate topic , yes. But calling it a "problem" is already the framing that pits locals against immigrants, distracting from what's really keeping people down. In fact, immigration is a solution to lots of actual problems. (For example demography and lack of economi growth.)

Yes, I am pitting locals against immigrants and I am calling them a problem, which they are. Immigration is absolutely disastrous for the average citizen who has to compete for housing and jobs. Economic growth is pointless if it's only achieved by population growth. It is the wealth per person that counts, which will surely decrease when you import millions of people with few employable skills and their non-working…

Why do you think organisations go to the trouble of sponsoring visas?

Papering over the lack of a suitably equipped workforce because of deficiencies in the education system will similarly not lead to growth.

Blaming immigrants is lazy.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawmakers are: in the EU you have a block of right-wing parties. The large part are funded by large companies and make laws which favour them. Same thing as in the US. There are other right-wing (and left-wing) blocks who are funded by the Kremlin and Kremlin-supporters who just try to break things. At the EC they're not corrupt, they try their best, but they're often given bad advice and are themselves not exper…

> a block of right-wing parties. The large part are funded by large companies and make laws which favour them. Same thing as in the US. You need to be mad to think it's the right wing parties in the US who get the most funding. E.g. [0] > The Biden—now Harris—campaign committee raised $997.2 million and Trump’s campaign committee raised $388 million in total between Jan. 2023 and Oct. 16, 2024, the most recent date f…

The two main US parties are firmly right wing, although the Democrats do have a small number of centralist (like Bernie) and centre-left people (though I dunno if any are actually in the Congress).

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#997
post #993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a separate topic , yes. But calling it a "problem" is already the framing that pits locals against immigrants, distracting from what's really keeping people down. In fact, immigration is a solution to lots of actual problems. (For example demography and lack of economi growth.)

Yes, I am pitting locals against immigrants and I am calling them a problem, which they are. Immigration is absolutely disastrous for the average citizen who has to compete for housing and jobs. Economic growth is pointless if it's only achieved by population growth. It is the wealth per person that counts, which will surely decrease when you import millions of people with few employable skills and their non-working…

> import millions of people with few employable skills

That's denying reality to a level that's not even funny. For an above-average group like HN folks I'd even assume a bad faith perspective.

The average immigrant is the prime person to boost the economy. They are already born and have gone through childhood, the most expensive time. The society they are immigrating to pays none of that. In contrast, they tend to be young and hungry for work. Exactly what your economy needs. Either they can work right away, mind you often jobs that locals don't want (low level construction, cleaning, elderly care). Or you give them a few years of training and they work harder than the average local. They are on average more law abiding and know that they must succeed otherwise they will be outcasts. No chilling on moms sofa.

Of course there are outliers. But for a fair argument you need to consider the lazy/criminal/... locals too. And the highly educated immigrants that are making the tech sector work which is currently essentially running the economy. Remove all immigrants from the tech sector and the whole western economy would collapse.

Oh and the health care sector without its immigrants. Or farming with its immigrants. If you think they are taking the locals' jobs in these sectors then you are delusional since that's not the reality you and I are living in.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's an honest reading. If there were a wealth of data and analyses that suggested the UK's economy is larger because of brexit I could agree but I certainly can't find any. You're right to be skeptical of the doomsayers that predicted (and continue to predict) disaster, but it seems incredibly unlikely (and unsupported by data) that Brexit did nothing.

Why would you need to see evidence that the economy is larger because of Brexit when what I said was it made no difference, larger or smaller? It only seems incredibly unlikely it did nothing because we were all subjected to industrial-scale propaganda claiming the effect would be huge. In hindsight it is obvious why there was no effect: the single market is only a single market for goods, but Britain primarily expor…

The broad swathe of analyses done to answer the question of "how did the economy change due to brexit?" consistently suggest brexit shrunk the economy. All analyses are biased or flawed in some way because they rely on making a prediction of what the economy would have been if brexit hadn't happened, but that's only a prediction. Since they are flawed, but they are many, the likely truth is in the aggragate of many analyses, just like when we take multiple measurements of a noisy system and take the mean to get a more certain result than any one analysis. If what you're saying is true I would expect there to be some predictions that back up what you're saying exactly, along with a number of predictions that the economy increased in size. That's why I'm asking for evidence of predictions of a larger economy, because it makes your statement far more plausible.

Your point on goods isn't... Good. Services is the majority but goods still make up ~1/3rd of exports, and don't forget we still have to import goods. Brexit affected that too.

truth of this unfortunately depends on the analysis of others, thus when those analyses . The data cannot itself show whether the

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#999
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated I would argue it's even worse, because with properly designed federated system you get checks and balances to some extent. There are parts of EU that have almost zero oversight.

Can you elaborate more? When you say "checks and balances" do you mean explicit legal mechanisms or implicit mechanisms like Tiebout-style foot voting? For the latter areas with "almost zero oversight" seem advantages. Also, can you give an example of these low-oversight places and how it manifests? I'm thankful even for some pointers in what to search for.

Late response as i rarely check HN replies.

European Commission is so disjoined from electorate through many layers of elections, that it can disregard it completely - practically citizens have no input on EC's body. Any legislation originates from there which makes it even worse.

Only guarantee of EC doing their job is their Oath, and vote of no confidence is basically impossible to call, nor there's a way to initiate one from citizens side via for example a referendum. There are no consequences for not following the Oath at all so corrupt EC can easily push things that are favorable for bigger voting blocks, while screwing everyone else and get away with it.

The only measure that citizens have to actually affect EU turned out to be worthless(as SKG initiative has shown) - as Citizens Initiative is not binding at all, and can be disregarded.

EU itself creates a system of double loyalty for every politician - do they pursue national interest or do they jump ship to European ones(including appointed positions)? This erodes national systems of check and balances.

European initiatives are impossible to control nor audit form member state PoV, and it's even worse from citizen PoV. And there's no mechanism to counteract bureaucratic bloat growth, nor rampant lobbying.

European Council is used as a way to launder unpopular legislations and push it onto all member states - like chat control.

Most of the times none of those legislations have been a part of internal political campaigns - and even if they were, they were such in only single member state. There was zero input from citizens, even in forms of voting for their own government.

President of European Parliament can act against parliament itself, again with no mechanism for any consequences(ie best example is pushing chat control vote just before summer vacation this year)

Whole institution of EU after Lisbon Treaty was made with assumption that every member state will pursue their own best interests, MEPs will pursue their own best national interests too. But sadly this created system in which it is difficult to purge any form of corruption(both embezzlement/criminal, pursuing personal interests or being purely ideologically driven without consideration of practicality).

This was done to create resistance to populism, but in practice created system that's extremely resistant to purging corruption.

It doesn't help that EU itself is a very top-down organization. Not in form of dictatorship - it's far from that - but in form of committee driven changes by unelected civil servants that operate like a black box.

and one last thing, not related to checks and balances - EU itself moves at glacial pace and is resistant to change by design - which would be perfectly fine for just a Trade Union. Unfortunately it leads to it both not reacting in time, and pushing initiatives that are already outdated.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#1000
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated I would argue it's even worse, because with properly designed federated system you get checks and balances to some extent. There are parts of EU that have almost zero oversight.

Yeah, this in between state is really frustrating. I hope we will see a push towards more federalization, but that’s unlikely

I don't see federalism ever working - you have thousand of years of grudges within EU that you would have to overcome, plus gigantic cultural differences that lead to completely different ways of life.

Trade union is more likely honestly.

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