The Kindle Swindle? • Hacker News Board

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#41

Post by wmeredith » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:31 PM UTC

unalone wrote: post #36

barbie17 wrote: post #8

They should be grateful that the Amazon Kindle, a complement good to ebooks is so popular. How many books were purchased because of the Amazon Kindle? How many books will be bought because of the extra usefulness of the audio feature? Instead, they are biting the hand that feeds them. Not only that, but they are also obstructing the advancement of technology and innovation by reducing their usefulness. First Google B…

Perhaps I'm biased because I'm a writer myself, but I think they're a little bit more excusable than the RIAA. Writers have an ancient history: as a group they are further behind the times than any other, and their world is extremely closed-door and high-barrier. Because of that, their love and joy has dwindled, decade by decade, and they haven't noticed that the people who are making their craft more loved are the p…

Since when is ignorance an excuse to inflict harm?

The established players seek to maintain the status quo in which they exist as "established." This leads them to fight change. I for one, hope they lose that fight, but it's only because I'm not one of those established in this fight, so I will benefit from progressive methods to access media.

It's also worth mentioning that you'll find very few undiscovered/unpublished writers that would have a problem with someone buying their book and listening to it on a Kindle.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#42

Post by andreyf » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:37 PM UTC

sethg wrote: post #18

witten wrote: post #4

I'm sympathetic to the plight of the starving (or even well-fed) writer wanting to get paid for their work. But the opinion espoused in this piece is the classic argument that just because an industry has grown accustomed to a particular revenue stream or business model, they should therefore always and forever have the privilege of keeping it. And anyone who introduces products or technology to prevent that or cut i…

This is not his argument. Separate revenue streams for audio books is not just a quaint custom in the publishing world, but a consequence of copyright law, which treats text and audio rights as properties that may be licensed separately. He's arguing that his constituents' property is being taken from them without their consent. I think his case is weak, but it's not dumb.

I think his case is weak, but it's not dumb.

I don't understand what the Author's Guild is trying to do here... Obviously, Amazon's lawyers have considered what the implications of an text-to-speech service are. As far as I can tell, the AG isn't even filing a lawsuit, just a PR complain-campaign. What does that get them?

Conspiracy-hat-interpretation: this is great PR for the Kindle's new text-to-speech features. If it wasn't for the Author's Guild, this would be just another bullet point on the features list. Is this a favor from Roy Blount to Amazon?

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#43

Post by andreyf » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:42 PM UTC

jpd wrote: post #37

sethg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not his argument. Separate revenue streams for audio books is not just a quaint custom in the publishing world, but a consequence of copyright law, which treats text and audio rights as properties that may be licensed separately. He's arguing that his constituents' property is being taken from them without their consent. I think his case is weak, but it's not dumb.

But Amazon is neither selling nor giving away audio books. They are giving away a general text-to-speech solution which may conveniently be used on a book. Arguing that this is violating copyrights is the same thing as saying that text-to-speech is inherently illegal.

I wonder how things would change if the text-to-speech were done server-side? I'd imagine one can get significantly better quality if you're not doing text-to-speech on the 400Mhz processor on the Kindle 2.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#44

Post by Tichy » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:45 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #22

Tichy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, isn't reading on a kindle also like a movie? At least when you scroll, the text is moving across the screen. So I think Amazon should also pay for the movie rights.

I don't think the refresh rate is fast enough to "scroll".

Well, how many frames per second until something is considered to be a movie? ;-)

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#45

Post by unalone » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:48 PM UTC

wmeredith wrote: post #41

unalone wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm biased because I'm a writer myself, but I think they're a little bit more excusable than the RIAA. Writers have an ancient history: as a group they are further behind the times than any other, and their world is extremely closed-door and high-barrier. Because of that, their love and joy has dwindled, decade by decade, and they haven't noticed that the people who are making their craft more loved are the p…

Since when is ignorance an excuse to inflict harm? The established players seek to maintain the status quo in which they exist as "established." This leads them to fight change. I for one, hope they lose that fight, but it's only because I'm not one of those established in this fight, so I will benefit from progressive methods to access media. It's also worth mentioning that you'll find very few undiscovered/unpublis…

Since when is ignorance an excuse to inflict harm?

They see it as protecting themselves. They inflict harm in the process, but they don't see it as that, and that's why I feel sympathy for them: they don't entirely understand what's going on.

The established players seek to maintain the status quo in which they exist as "established." This leads them to fight change.

They think that the physical form of the book is an important part of literature. I agree with them, but unlike them I think the book is stronger and more lasting than they think. If the book was in danger, then I don't care what solution was being proposed, I would fight to keep the novel afloat for as long as possible. It's too valuable to risk losing.

It's also worth mentioning that you'll find very few undiscovered/unpublished writers that would have a problem with someone buying their book and listening to it on a Kindle.

Most of those writers aren't as dedicated as the published one. A few are, and they're the people who are worth reaching out to, but writing takes an incredible amount of dedication. It attracts an odd bunch of people.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#46

Post by jerf » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:49 PM UTC

greyman wrote: post #30

eli wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't. Maybe that's the way it should be , but you certainly can't read that book to an audience or crack the DRM and print out copies for your friends.

I know, but I wrote "anything legal". Reading the book to an audience might not be legal, but running it through the reading software at my home certainly is not illegal.

I don't disagree with you, but that's still begging the question.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#47

Post by ajaypopat » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:49 PM UTC

If you want to see what the Kindle 2 text-to-speech sounds like, you can checkout this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9UtONUBV0s (at the 4:05 mark)

The unboxing video is really annoying but I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the text-to-speech. The voice even has intonation which I've never heard in automated speech before.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#48

Post by unalone » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:53 PM UTC

ajb wrote: post #39

unalone wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey! This is what my start-up does, so I can talk about that a little bit. The first thing to change about the business model is the focus. A lot of people who are enthusiastic about writers know two or three names of writers they follow, and that's it. Everything outside of that is an unknown to them. The first part of the solution is to focus people who are enthusiastic about writing in one place. The next fix is t…

Those sound like the right goals, if you have a way to implement them. Does your startup have a website yet?

We finished fine-tuning our prototype yesterday (you know your web site is ready when your registration page looks beautiful). Starting today we're coding the beta.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#49

Post by ynniv » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 4:59 PM UTC

When this came up at the Kindle 2 release, I had hoped that the Author's Guild would listen to people's reactions as an indicator of things to come. Instead, they shout their argument twice as loud and in a more public place. Roy Blount has a choice, but he needs to make it soon.

The smart thing to do is restructure his industry following Apple's iTunes model, reducing the power of publishers and negotiating more favorable agreements between authors and ebook distributers.

The stupid thing is to become the next Lars Ulrich, telling people that they're pirates and technology is bad. He has a convenient corporate entity to attack, which is much easier than poor college kids, but he is fighting a futile battle against the tide.

Audio rights are an absurd right to begin with, existing because we drive around so much that some people are willing to splurge on this luxurious derivative. Technology naturally makes things less expensive, and if it isn't the Kindle, it will be another reader, or a reader add-on, that will provide the same functionality.

Do the right thing, Roy, and spend your time optimizing the efficiency of the market for authors.

Re: The Kindle Swindle?

#50

Post by sethbc » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 5:13 PM UTC

rationalbeaver wrote: post #24

RK wrote: post #9

For the record: no, the Authors Guild does not expect royalties from anybody doing non-commercial performances of "Goodnight Moon." If parents want to send their children off to bed with the voice of Kindle 2, however, it’s another matter. I really don't follow his logic here. I think the fundamental question is "what is a performance?". I just find it hard to see that kindle reading = voice actor reading. Why go to…

It seems that Amazon would agree with that assessment, since they own Audible.com, the web's biggest audio book seller. One would imagine that if they thought the kindle's reading feature would infringe upon/destroy the audio book business, they wouldn't have given it the green light.

Agreed. In fact, Amazon engineered the Kindle to play Audible books as well. And they didn't eliminate this functionality when they added the ability to 'read' the books aloud.