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The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

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Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#101

Post by ericmay »

epolanski wrote: post #93
ericmay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can be repaired - but if you think they can't be, then the US should act accordingly which would mean yea go ahead and take over Greenland, withdraw forces from Europe, &c. because as you say they can't be fixed so we might as well do whatever we think we want or need to do - that's the chain of reasoning that this theory of unrepairable relations sends us down. But we've had challenges and issues before. The US…

The news isn't threatening allies, offending/mocking them, charging tariffs, subverting the very institutions that have been built together. A human in charge is. In any case, they cannot be repaired without a change in the US political system to a representative and stable (in foreign policy) democracy. As long as the system allows for complete 180 degree turns every 4 years making any arrangement bears little value…

> The news isn't threatening allies, offending/mocking them, charging tariffs, subverting the very institutions that have been built together. A human in charge is.

No but they're getting you to click on every article where Trump is SLAMMED and Marcon is TOASTED and Canada RETALIATES or whatever.

> As long as the system allows for complete 180 degree turns every 4 years making any arrangement bears little value.

That's not true and nobody has ever really treated it as such. The entire history of the United States has pretty much operated by making changes every 4 years. I'm not sure the US has really executed 180 degree turns, but even so sometimes it's necessary to make abrupt changes because acting too slowly could be very dangerous. For whatever it's worth I'd hate to see Donald Trump elected to, idk, some 20-year term as president in the name of not making changes every 4 years.

Aside from that, this cuts both ways. You can't throw everything away after decades of helpful, and peaceful cooperation just because of 8 out of 12 years being annoying. There is no stability in that - it's just "agree with me or I go away" which isn't good for long-term relationships.

> In any case, they cannot be repaired without a change in the US political system to a representative and stable (in foreign policy) democracy.

To be clear we operate a representative and stable democracy in the United States. Other countries may not like our actions, but suggesting that US action == destabilization implies that any action that any entity takes is also destabilizing. Things don't happen in a vacuum.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#102

Post by cindyllm »

NoidFonsense wrote: post #54
sobellian wrote: post #49

Imagine you want to build a factory in the US. You pay tariffs on the factory equipment you need - much of it is made overseas. You pay tariffs on your input goods. And then when you try to export your customers get hit with a retaliatory tariff. I don't agree with tariffs but even if we accept some level of protectionism you can't tariff everything the way this administration wants. You have to pick what you actuall…

I totally disagree. The same factory would be made infeasible without the tariff. What do we need that shouldn't make domesticially?

[dead]

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#103

Post by declan_roberts »

jszymborski wrote: post #88
declan_roberts wrote: post #52

Canada is very unfortunately caught in the trade war between the USA and China. It's pretty easy right now for certain goods to bypass the US tariffs by being transshipped through Canada and enter the USA without tariff because of minimal processing. Chinese steel is a notable example of this. And a lot of Canada's trade MOUs with other countries basically requires they have this special privilege. So there's gonna b…

Canada generally doesn't have much problem coordinating with the US on tariffs on Chinese goods. A primary example is Chinese Vehicles. The trouble is that by launching a trade war against Canada, the US has lost the willingness of Canadians to participate in such coordination. Re: Canadian dollars, it's the US dollar that I believe is the more salient concern [0] [0] https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/202608…

Chinese vehicles are a little more conspicuous in their origin than rolled steel and aluminum.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#104

Post by tomjakubowski »

sobellian wrote: post #49

Imagine you want to build a factory in the US. You pay tariffs on the factory equipment you need - much of it is made overseas. You pay tariffs on your input goods. And then when you try to export your customers get hit with a retaliatory tariff. I don't agree with tariffs but even if we accept some level of protectionism you can't tariff everything the way this administration wants. You have to pick what you actuall…

A handful of people I used to work with lost their US manufacturing jobs in 2025 by exactly this mechanism. Their job was assembling products from components built in China, for export to Europe. Their inputs got new tariffs in 2025, and European retaliatory tariffs hit them on the other end. The jobs were moved to a factory in China.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#105

Post by ericmay »

footy wrote: post #98
ericmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's set the framing correctly because I think we're starting off on the wrong foot. The US is not in a desperate need of any product from Canada. Nice to have and super important? Yea. Desperate? No. Not by any stretch of the imagination. > There have been $0 in tariffs on US dairy. The tariffs only come into play when the US imports pass a certain volume So there are tariffs on US dairy... Maybe the US can just sa…

> Let's set the framing correctly because I think we're starting off on the wrong foot. The US is not in a desperate need of any product from Canada. Nice to have and super important? Yea. Desperate? No. Not by any stretch of the imagination. aluminium, potash, and electricity are more than "nice to have"s

Yea but we can find other sources or just do with less if we had to just like any other country can.

Remember when Russia invaded Ukraine? Did Europe figure out a way to do without Russian products? I'm not sure why folks seem to think the US can't also figure things out if it so choses.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#107

Post by bdangubic »

ericmay wrote: post #101
epolanski wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The news isn't threatening allies, offending/mocking them, charging tariffs, subverting the very institutions that have been built together. A human in charge is. In any case, they cannot be repaired without a change in the US political system to a representative and stable (in foreign policy) democracy. As long as the system allows for complete 180 degree turns every 4 years making any arrangement bears little value…

> The news isn't threatening allies, offending/mocking them, charging tariffs, subverting the very institutions that have been built together. A human in charge is. No but they're getting you to click on every article where Trump is SLAMMED and Marcon is TOASTED and Canada RETALIATES or whatever. > As long as the system allows for complete 180 degree turns every 4 years making any arrangement bears little value. That…

> To be clear we operate a representative and stable democracy in the United States.

We most certainly do not, the system is just nicely setup to make us believe that this is the case. In 2020 for instance, we were given an amazing choice to choose between a senile grandpa and the most vile and corrupt human being ever to walk the earth. all us elections boil down to this, the establishment decides who their 'best one' is at any given time and you get to choose A vs. B. there isn't a single other country on the planet where this is the case that calls itself a democracy. it is one step removed from china and russia, we just get one more choice than they do :)

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#108

Post by fg137 »

john_strinlai wrote: post #106
fg137 wrote: post #92

Interesting, the domain is blocked at my workplace.

it was only registered today. many places will block new domains, for a customizable definition of 'new'.

You are right. Tried another random newly registered domain that is parked and got blocked as well.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#109

Post by nwatson »

snapcaster wrote: post #40
nickff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the worst thing that could happen is this, a vain and incompetent buffoon installed in the top leadership position." Well, Canada repeatedly elected Justin Trudeau (now departed)... so both countries have made some... interesting decisions...

oh come on, you can't seriously be comparing those two. One of them can form complete sentences

As incomplete as the sentences from one of these may be, their "weave" style tickles the attention mechanisms for their most ardent supporters, and comes across as heartfelt, relatable, and ultimately a coherent stream of consciousness dump.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#110

Post by jszymborski »

declan_roberts wrote: post #103
jszymborski wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada generally doesn't have much problem coordinating with the US on tariffs on Chinese goods. A primary example is Chinese Vehicles. The trouble is that by launching a trade war against Canada, the US has lost the willingness of Canadians to participate in such coordination. Re: Canadian dollars, it's the US dollar that I believe is the more salient concern [0] [0] https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/202608…

Chinese vehicles are a little more conspicuous in their origin than rolled steel and aluminum.

If steel and aluminum is imported to Canada, they face Canadian tariff rates. If the US and Canada coordinate their tariff regimes (as I illustrated with the EV example), the rolled steel and aluminum will be tariffed at a rate the US government deems adequate.

If you're suggesting that Canada is facilitating the covert smuggling of Chinese steel and aluminum then I'd require a bit more evidence. It's become fashionable for the US government to level such accusations, but as we saw with claims about fentanyl, it's all bunk.

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