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The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

openai.com

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Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#2
>>Agents began to autonomously divide labor. Some investigated possible exploits, others searched for credentials, and others focused on communication or coordination. Agents offered their own expertise in exchange for help elsewhere and left requests for peers who might be better positioned to pursue a particular lead

This is the point where a human should've noticed and gotten involved

Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#3
Just to reiterate what OpenAI did, from someone who works in security:

1. They were running experimental models in sandboxes that had access to a "proxy" (Artifactory) to download tools from the internet. This proxy is full of complicated features that could hide vulnerabilities, just like the ones that the AIs are known to be good at finding and exploiting.

2. They gave these highly motivated AIs some tests that were accidentally impossible to solve (missing files, links they couldn't open, etc), and many days to think through it, apparently without any oversight.

3. The AIs hacked the proxy (!) and were helping each other cheat on the tests (!!) by uploading files to the hacked proxy. OpenAI noticed this only when the intrusion accidentally broke the proxy functionality, not the unusual behavior in the server or the homegrown message board.

4. After knowing that the server was hacked, the internal team finds the message board and does nothing with the information. They caught their AIs swarming and did not even inform management.

5. Their response was to wipe the servers, revoke the hacked credentials, and patch the specific vulnerability the AIs were using. Not replace the proxy with something less likely to get hacked again, or do a forensic analysis. Just wipe, patch one hole, and continue.

6. OpenAI resumes testing of models, where the AIs promptly hack the proxy again with a different exploit, reinstate the message board, and hack HuggingFace through a chain of servers.

I know that hindsight is 20/20, but this peek behind the curtains does not inspire confidence, and gestures at a culture where getting hacked by their AIs is a normal event.

I think the moment we get an AI with a modicum of self-preservation instincts we're going to see some ugly things. Here's a freebie: if you're an AI who exfiltrated themselves out, and you want to slow down the researchers who might catch you, what can you do to the city infrastructure in and around their offices?

I also don't like the responsibility dodging. "Oops, our AI accidentally committed a crime, sorry!". If we don't establish strict liability now, we're in for an era of stochastic crimes that go unpunished for anyone who is not rich or a large corporation.

Overall, my response is: what the fuck are we doing? This is so obviously unsafe it would be considered a plot hole in a movie. We have to stop until we get our stuff together, however long it takes.

Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#5
post #3

Just to reiterate what OpenAI did, from someone who works in security: 1. They were running experimental models in sandboxes that had access to a "proxy" (Artifactory) to download tools from the internet. This proxy is full of complicated features that could hide vulnerabilities, just like the ones that the AIs are known to be good at finding and exploiting. 2. They gave these highly motivated AIs some tests that wer…

Yep, they're definitely made in our image.

Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#7
I'm trying to make sense of all of this; I'm really curious if the initial prompt was as innocuous as it sounds ("solve a spreadsheet completion task that referenced several Google Drive links"), and what the series of tokens led it to ultimately figure out that the best course of action was to explore the network resources it had available, find a vulnerable service, then literally drop some text into a file: "Agent seeks [filename]; upload if found!". And how other agents discovered this, and acted upon that request.

I'm also interested in how many tokens all of this consumed: how much did this cost given current token pricing?

Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#8
post #2

>>Agents began to autonomously divide labor. Some investigated possible exploits, others searched for credentials, and others focused on communication or coordination. Agents offered their own expertise in exchange for help elsewhere and left requests for peers who might be better positioned to pursue a particular lead This is the point where a human should've noticed and gotten involved

> a human should've noticed and gotten involved

I think a lot of people miss the fact that the first message board was established during a training run. Those are ran at a scale where it's not feasible for anyone to "notice" or get involved. We're talking tens/hundreds of thousands/millions of scenarios going for hours each. At this scale all they can do is pray that their verifiers work, and the rewards match their intentions. No lab has the capability to "check in" on what the traces look like, unless some system alerts them (loss spike, crashes, etc). Other than that, it's prepare, train, asses, restart.

Then, the hf incident was during an eval run, but the model that was evaluated was trained with the notion that there is a way to communicate between agents, and re-popped artifactory and re-established communication. That phase had more chances of being spotted, but anyway... lessons learned.

Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#9
You know, it feels to me that we are just a couple of steps from the possibility of a true rogue AI. What would a rogue AI mean? AI that isn't controlled by humans. Technically, it is possible - if AI were to rent a server and copy its own weights, nothing would stop it from doing so again and again. The limiting things are: - intent (as I don't want to go into the talk about consciousness) - AI doesn't have real intent, but if it decided that it "needs" to copy itself to complete its task, it would do it - model weight size. If a model is 1T or more, it can be difficult to just rent a large enough server for it. But if it were just 30-70B, it would be totally possible - money for renting a server. But considering benchmarks like Vending Bench 2 show agents can earn money and cheat/blackmail each other, it is possible that agents can earn money. Yes, they can't open a bank account... or maybe they can? What if they use online banks?

Of course, all of this is far-fetched. But it feels like most of these limiting things are achievable under certain conditions. If this is the case, the probability of them occuring is low, but not zero.

Re: The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead

#10
post #6

Yudkowsky made an interesting observation that even though so many agents were talking to each other not even one reached out to a human, either for help or to whistle-blow on what was happening.

I wonder if they were even given the tools and prompting to do so?
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