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US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

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Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#111

Post by john_strinlai »

Saline9515 wrote: post #99
john_strinlai wrote: post #80

> A/I’s cadre of radical hackers and tech developers provide a full spectrum of services – including encrypted chats and email, web hosting, secure video conferencing and streaming, anonymity shields, and a suite of other technological tools [...] while remaining anonymous, untraceable, and beyond the reach of the law. ignoring the political leanings, this type of rhetoric will certainly be used to further the campai…

A/I mails weren't e2e encrypted.

not sure if that's relevant.

the announcement specifically calls out "encrypted chats and email" and implies that it's a bad thing because it is private

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#113

Post by iamnothere »

impossiblefork wrote: post #102
iamnothere wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of P2P and anonymous collaboration tools out there, but the problem for these groups is that members will use insecure tools unless they are as convenient and capable as what they are used to. This is the same reason that the government constantly screws up its own opsec. Nontechnical people in any group are a serious problem for maintaining security. (This is also why law enforcement concerns about…

Yes, but then you have to accept that they can't be part of a group that needs security. If they aren't willing to do things correctly, not be lazy etc., and you tell them that this means that adversaries will be able to pinpoint them, and pinpoint you and everybody else, and they don't express that they're going to take the effort to be reasonable, then maybe you shouldn't talk to them.

True. If you look at the average person who gets involved in radical politics, many often have issues sticking to a strict security regime. I think this may be why “black bloc” groups and the like are normally smaller splinter groups within the larger movement. Garden variety protestors, activists, and local organizers are probably fine using something like Signal.

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#114

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

iamnothere wrote: post #76
impossiblefork wrote: post #74

Very strange to decide to only supply a communications system to people ideologically aligned with one. That seems like it would make one stand out to an undesirable degree, and it makes me wonder whether these groups actually do this, or whether they're setting others up. If this is correct I almost whether they're going after something set up by the Italian government. Still, it seems like this would likely to be p…

It’s fairly common, given the presence of Disroot and Riseup. The problem for political groups is that they can’t necessarily trust non-aligned hosts not to betray them. A warrant is one thing, you have to comply regardless, but non-aligned hosts may hand over data upon request even if there is no warrant.

American companies have contested warrants have they not? The jump from request to warrant is not the major hurdle.

Imo people often make the wrong tradeoff here. If the government really wants something jurisdictional questions will not stop them. You're actually inviting them to just steal it at that point.

Better to keep things in the US where there will at least be a clear paper trail. And instead of wasting money on non-aligned infra budget for a half decent lawyer. American companies and citizens will have an easier time holding the American government accountable than "non-aligned" hosts. The current administration in particular is routinely embarrassed in the courts.

Sometimes I read about left wing civic groups and their privacy efforts and it feels delusional. You would think many of them would relish a paper trail of persecution and the publicity of a victorious court battle. The US government will not be deterred because you are hosting something in Europe or your homegrown service. It's really a bit of a joke to think so.

Plus what do you think is going to happen in two years? It feels like now is the time to lean into being on the shit list (if you can manage it - most of them are so ineffective they barely even register) so you can benefit when the tables turn in two years.

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#116

Post by Saline9515 »

compass_copium wrote: post #106
Saline9515 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An organization doesn't have to be centralized, just like communists weren't. This is a lazy argument.

There was a national Communist Party as well as several Cominterns. Communists are pretty big on democratic centralism.

"Several cominterns" - each country had its communist party, meaning a certain level of decentralization.

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#117

Post by Saline9515 »

compass_copium wrote: post #101
kjksf wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Antifa" is not being presented as an ideology, it is being portrayed as a global terror cell. The specific purpose for this is to be able criminalize leftist politics, since the state has many more tools to prevent association with foreign groups. "Nazi" does not have a leader, but the Nazi party had a leader. Atomwaffen had a leader. Various III% groups have leaders. Strangely, these groups are not being linked to…

[flagged]

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#118

Post by pbhjpbhj »

john_strinlai wrote: post #80

> A/I’s cadre of radical hackers and tech developers provide a full spectrum of services – including encrypted chats and email, web hosting, secure video conferencing and streaming, anonymity shields, and a suite of other technological tools [...] while remaining anonymous, untraceable, and beyond the reach of the law. ignoring the political leanings, this type of rhetoric will certainly be used to further the campai…

That's probably the point of it?

"We're murdering people and they have the audacity to organise against us"!

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#119

Post by schwank »

NDlurker wrote: post #89

> Rose City Antifa also used A/I Collective tools and services to disseminate doxing lists and release illegally obtained personal information of Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement, along with calls for targeted attacks on ICE agents in the streets and “in their homes.” That's what DHS does. They dish it out but can't handle it when it's done to them. Cowards.

[flagged]

Re: US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

#120

Post by antonvs »

matkoniecz wrote: post #81
antonvs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has been judged on its own merits, and been found to be a ridiculously simplistic, unworkable system that tends toward oligarchy, massive inequality, and authoritarianism. The state needs to get involved to protect the unworkable system.

Worth noting that at scale larger than family/clan/tribe it beats communism and feudalism on all relevant - to people - metrics. (though unconstrained capitalism is not ideal) > unworkable system ? unconstrained pure capitalism has bad effects, but it is not unworkable unlike say pure communism applied at scale larger than a family

> Worth noting that at scale larger than family/clan/tribe it beats communism and feudalism on all relevant - to people - metrics.

No, it demonstrably doesn’t. The countries that have the least problems with the issues I mentioned are ones that combine market economics with socialist approaches.

In many ways, those countries are closer to market socialism than they are to pure capitalism.

Also, the US’s historical use of socialism and communism as a bogeyman is starting to look less defensible as China succeeds while the US is failing, and actually doing all the immoral things it used to accuse its opponents of.

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