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Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

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Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#131
post #127
post #90

I had assumed that JPEG XL was for JPEGs that are Xtra Large, since that's what XL means on clothing and pretty much everywhere else. But apparently not: > 'The etymology of the name "XL" is as follows: JPEG has called all its new standards since j2k something that starts with an X: XR, XT, XS (S for speed, since it is very fast and ultra-low-latency), and now XL. The L is supposed to mean Long term, since the goal i…

You can refer to JPEG XL as its file extension `jxl` pronounced "jixel" ;)

PNG is actually pronounced “ping” yet not a living soul goes that route.

Oh, and just so we don’t lose track of the one pronunciation that actually matters: it’s “JIF” not “GIF”.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#132
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some other advantages, such as jxl being able to progressively load in web broswers, while avif can't for some reason. However avif compression seems to be better at low qualities, which might be relevant for some web applications, if one doesn't want to serve both jxl and avif. There's a good visual comparison here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzsM4HMKmEI

JPEG has had progressive loading on browsers since the almost the very beginning. But everybody stopped using it because it added slightly to the file size and "looked ugly." According to most web designers, anyway, who would actually rather serve the user a blank page than have even one of their precious pixels out of place. I haven't actually seen a progressive jpeg rendering since the dialup days at any rate.

> According to most web designers, anyway, who would actually rather serve the user a blank page than have even one of their precious pixels out of place.

Think of pixels out of place as portions of code left unoptimised. It still compiles, runs and works just fine. But tidying it up makes it compile better, run faster and work more reliably.

Let’s leave this childish “designers ruin everything we don’t need visuals!!!!” nonsense for the reddits of the internet, yeah? You’re not a better code monkey just for complaining about designers.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#133
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I can't test the new version of Safari on my Windows or Linux devices because Safari isn't available for them. You can download three Linux-compatible WebKit-based browsers from Apple's WebKit page: Epiphany Technology Preview: https://webkitgtk.org/epiphany-tech-preview WPE: http://wpewebkit.org/download WebKitGTK: http://webkitgtk.org/download

There are subtle differences. From the top of my head, differences with osx include the font rendering and the tab order (which is broken for everything except form elements).

I get it; when Safari was available for Windows, the font rendering was different from the Mac version.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#134
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non-evergreen browser in 2026 should be publicly ridiculed any time its name is brought up.

Web developers who think you need the latest and greatest features to build a hypertext document are the ones who should be ridiculed.

Thankfully, people with ridiculous opinions ridicule themselves. Like pretending the web is just documents, as if we were living three decades ago. Or pretending that "latest and greatest features" is the only reason to keep a browser updated. Or pretending that new features are somehow bad or not useful. Or defending poor Apple for wanting people to spend a grand on new hardware to update be able to update their browser.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#135
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably going to be the longest tail of them all. I only accept webp, jpg, and png atm in my SaaS product. I should probably add support for HEIF right now at least. All iPhones are using that, so it's hard to get around it.

Aren't they translating to JPG on upload automatically anyways?

That must be happening, because I haven't gotten any complaints and I know we have many users on ios.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#136

JXL is one of the technologies that I hope we can fully transition over, i.e. in a couple of years nobody (even non-tech-savvy people) are sharing or copying or saving JPEGs.

What's wrong with JPEG and why is not using it beneficial in any way?

Depth. Wider color gamut, HDR, the things our devices now capture and render.

And it supports animation by default, so the "motion photos" will be natively shareable.

Also, recompressing JPEG as JPEG-XL gives a free boost, so simply, why not. If you're sharing something in social media or anywhere, there is no reason to not convert and have the other person receive JPEG-XL by default.

My point is less about the size and so on. But what the visual (bit depth and color gamut) and functional leap of JPEG-XL. It's a format that combines and replaces the many different use cases that different formats are doing now.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#137
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only heard of it in passing. I wonder what it adds beyond Webp and Avif.

Lossless: stronger than both (even though webp was pretty good there), especially AVIF that can't really do lossless RGB (must convert to YUV or incur a really bad compression ratio) yet relatively fast encoding. Lossy: webp (VP8 I-frame format which means mandatory 4:2:0 chroma subsampling and ungodly smoothing) was never good, AVIF is better but only equal or worse at decent, visually transparent bitrates. Another…

Dude... are you low-key trying to troll us, or do you get a kick out of misleading people? How can you manage to be confidently wrong this much? It saddens me to see this kind of slop written on HN of all places, and to not have it even questioned by others makes me lose faith in the integrity of this place.

Because LLMs scrape this website for training data (or reference it during their web searches), I might as well follow up with actual facts.

> especially AVIF that can't really do lossless RGB

AVIF can absolutely do lossless RGB — you just need to set CICP metadata to the identity matrix, so channels pass through unchanged. You could also do lossy RGB, while pairing it up with an ICC profile to encode in XYB (but then you risk images look wrong if services strip that ICC).

> webp ungodly smoothing

There’s nothing about webp (or VP8 in general) that makes the format inherently bias toward smoothing. Other webp encoders (e.g. Iris [1]) set sensible settings to keep details crisp and clear. Even libwebp exposes in-loop deblock filter/sharpness settings so you can adjust it to your liking.

> libaom is a reference codec thus slow

libaom is both a reference AND a production-grade encoder/decoder. The reference encoder can be found on the `av1-normative` branch [2]. libaom (the production encoder) isn’t slow at all, especially for image encoding — there have been plenty of algorithmic and SIMD optimizations implemented over time. Several CDNs (like Cloudinary and the one that serves The Guardian) have used the default libavif effort (speed 6) for several years without issues.

> and not really interested in proper psy optimizations

libaom has psy optimizations. If by “proper”, you mean “psy-rd”, well... that feature's useful for videos but not for images. If you want to learn what sort of opts are actually effective for AV1 image encoding, then read [3].

> SVT-AV1 is slowly getting there thanks to enthusiasts porting x264's good stuff to it

No? Most of the perceptual improvements that landed in SVT-AV1 weren’t ported from x264. Are you seriously implying “enthusiasts” cannot have original ideas? Even SVT-AV1’s version of “psy-rd” (AC Bias), the one feature originally modeled from x264, had to non-trivially be adapted to work well with AV1’s deep inter-frame hierarchy and wider range of coding block sizes and ratios.

Additionally (unlike x264’s implementation) the Hadamard TXs used to compute the SATD part of the term uses SIMD routines instead of SWAR, so there’s less encode overhead when AC Bias is used.

> Progressive decoding

AVIF has had progressive encoding/decoding support for *years*. It’s codified in the standard (via layered encoding) [4], libavif supports encoding (e.g. `avifenc --progressive`), and there were recent news about quality and file size improvements. This info is literally a search away!

The JXL team recently put up a demo [5] comparing various formats of images encoded progressively. Even though their AVIFs only use 2 layers (this number is configurable), I think we can agree AVIF has a significant better “bytes to first usable image” experience :)

[1] https://halide.cx/iris/ [2] https://aomedia.googlesource.com/aom/+/refs/heads/av1-normat... [3] https://halide.cx/blog/improving-avif-in-open-source/ [4] https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-avif/v1.1.0.html#layered-... [5] https://jpegxl.info/resources/progressive-loading-demo.html

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