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Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

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Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#901

> Apple’s developer frameworks and tools — including Core AI, Core ML, Metal, and Xcode Can we please kill the xcode. It is worst pile of garbage I have to use just to develop ios app.

This is why so many iOS apps these days are based on Electron/Capacitor/React Native/etc.

That's probably because they want to develop cross-platform.

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#902

I was blown away by M1 Pro, and used it for 4 years before it became a little sluggish, and replacing it with an Asus S16 running on Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 (an excellent laptop). One of the main reasons was missing my old Linux setup. I've briefly tested M5 Pro in an Apple store and was surprised by how quick it felt and did anything. A tangible and significant difference, and I really feel it would be good getting it, or…

Still rocking an M1 Air - 2020 build. 8GB ram. No slowdown or deterioration at all. Battery health reports the battery max capacity at 84%. Best computer I've ever owned, by far.

Until recently my M1 Max 32GB 2021 was great until memory became the bottleneck. My M1 Pro 8GB lasted me less than a year bcs with Docker dev stuff made it sluggish. 32GB was great for years until AI assisted productivity got so high with Codex. Running 3 projects, 3 different worktrees, each either Docker compose or running/building Electron apps. So in this high AI era productivity my Mac is using insane amount of RAM and SSD space (bcs of all the worktrees)

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a little sluggish > surprised by how quick it felt Aren't these properties of the (G)UI rather than of the processor? I've been using systems 20 years ago that were super snappy. The same software would still be snappy today obviously. But the software has become bloated to the point that you need to run the latest generation of CPUs such that things are not sluggish. In principle you don't need 32-core GHz CPUs to…

Yeah... my solution for the last 3 decades (with a grain of salt) has been to buy the most expensive decked out Apple laptop every 6 years and never, ever update the OS. This is in line with my philosophy about shoes: I only own 5 copies of one pair (4 in boxes in my closet until I wear the current ones out). Rolling everything over to a new dev environment every 6 years is annoying but manageable. This way I took a…

> never, ever update the OS.

> took two airs for almost a decade from 10.4 to 10.10 or something

I’m curious, did macOS 10.4->10.10 not constitute an OS update? Or was this a time when you applied your rule differently?

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#904
post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a little sluggish > surprised by how quick it felt Aren't these properties of the (G)UI rather than of the processor? I've been using systems 20 years ago that were super snappy. The same software would still be snappy today obviously. But the software has become bloated to the point that you need to run the latest generation of CPUs such that things are not sluggish. In principle you don't need 32-core GHz CPUs to…

I keep thinking this and maybe I'm missing something, but I'd love to be able to opt for something in this direction, some old school constraints, I feel like we should be able to do something pretty magical these days For example, is there a version of linux that I'm missing? I've not run a desktop linux box in over a decade, any suggestions would be great, or is everyone happily running ubuntu / fedora?

No distro is going to be perceptibly faster than another. It's all about user experience - what tools ship with it, package manager, etc.

I'd pump the brakes on Ubuntu, which nowadays is a perceptibly worse user experience than other mainstream distros. Snap is a disaster, and flatpak rocketed past it years ago thanks to Valve bucks.

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#905
post #873
post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep thinking this and maybe I'm missing something, but I'd love to be able to opt for something in this direction, some old school constraints, I feel like we should be able to do something pretty magical these days For example, is there a version of linux that I'm missing? I've not run a desktop linux box in over a decade, any suggestions would be great, or is everyone happily running ubuntu / fedora?

No one uses Ubuntu any more (besides corporations), it's possibly the worst distro of the whole lot due to several bad decisions from Canonical (snap etc). Fedora is a decent alternative, but if you're really after performance, CachyOS is the way to go as they provide highly optimised (PGO/LTC etc) and CPU-family specific kernel, custom scheduler (BORE) and optimised binary packages (catering to x86-64-v3, x86-64-v4…

Tbh, Ubuntu/Kubuntu is fine if you're not a Linux die hard and just need a balanced OS that either feels more like macOS (in that case go for vanilla Ubuntu) or like Windows (in that case go for Kubuntu).

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#906
post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in the 90s, I could wield my OS of choice on the hardware I bought. What OS could I have loaded onto my Macintosh SE/30 that wasn't from Apple?

NetBSD. Still supported, by the way. Does Apple support your Macintosh SE/30 still? I believe Linux was also supported. https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/mac68k/

NetBSD for the Mac didn't come out until after the SE/30 was already discontinued, and even then was little more than a crashy, unusable beta mess, not a real operating system. It was a tech demo, not something you could do work with.

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#907
post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a little sluggish > surprised by how quick it felt Aren't these properties of the (G)UI rather than of the processor? I've been using systems 20 years ago that were super snappy. The same software would still be snappy today obviously. But the software has become bloated to the point that you need to run the latest generation of CPUs such that things are not sluggish. In principle you don't need 32-core GHz CPUs to…

It's the property of the display refresh rate.

A high refresh rate is only a crutch/workaround to reduce latency caused by too many pipeline stages until an input action shows up on the screen. A better fix is too reduce complexity in the involved software layers.

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#908
post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a little sluggish > surprised by how quick it felt Aren't these properties of the (G)UI rather than of the processor? I've been using systems 20 years ago that were super snappy. The same software would still be snappy today obviously. But the software has become bloated to the point that you need to run the latest generation of CPUs such that things are not sluggish. In principle you don't need 32-core GHz CPUs to…

This applies to the whole stack, even ignoring the GUI, you would not find systems with a gazillion of processes, doing OS IPC all over the place, because the hardware could not accommodate it. But hey, microservices and static linking are the future. /s

> But hey, microservices and static linking are the future. /s

Aren't those two things contradicting each other? ;)

I think macOS getting more sluggish in each release (which is objectively true) is just plain old bad software engineering and prioritising the wrong things. E.g. it's just Apple's version of "What Andy giveth, Bill taketh away.".

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... my solution for the last 3 decades (with a grain of salt) has been to buy the most expensive decked out Apple laptop every 6 years and never, ever update the OS. This is in line with my philosophy about shoes: I only own 5 copies of one pair (4 in boxes in my closet until I wear the current ones out). Rolling everything over to a new dev environment every 6 years is annoying but manageable. This way I took a…

> never, ever update the OS. > took two airs for almost a decade from 10.4 to 10.10 or something I’m curious, did macOS 10.4->10.10 not constitute an OS update? Or was this a time when you applied your rule differently?

I'd have to check em, it was just a guess, but I have two airs from the last decade (2009 and 2015 I think) with their original operating systems and I think one is around 10.4 and the other 10.10ish.

Maybe I misunderstood your question... I never updated the OS on either of them. Or on any Mac I've owned since the mid 90s.

Re: Apple introduces M6 and M5 Ultra

#910

I think I remember that at the 8nm architecture times there were talks about "reaching the physically possible limit" with the size of the transistors. These are 2nm. While normally pretty cynical, I am experiencing one of those "what a time to be alive" moments.

I hate to be that guy, but the nm number is completely unrelated to the actual size of the features printed on the chip. It’s become mainly a "chip manufacturing generation" label. But generation over generation, the features printed on the chips are becoming significantly more compact and advanced, so truly "what a time to be alive"! ;)

that is incredibly disappointing, but thanks for clarifying that for me.

why would the industry keep using the 'nm' unit when it no longer measure the actually etched features, how is the number even picked? :D

/facepalm

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