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C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
111–120 of 153 posts
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#112Aside from the fact that this was obviously never viable and the entire problem is clearly unsolvable if you sit down and really probe it for fifteen minutes, what I find most frustrating about this is that the false promise of preserving photos as reliable evidence is actively harmful. You will not build a perfect system, or even something near perfect. The best you're going to do is make it so that it's hard to cas…
Are we entering a world where if I took a picture with a film camera and scanned it, it would be rejected as not real? This is ridiculous.
You can even do it wholly in an analogue process, do a darkroom print, and it could be seen as fake as well - darkroom techniques are quite flexible as well. And a negative itself? That could be a copy of a prepared printed slide.
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a very long-ass way of saying "I disagree with this comment, I can't be bothered explaining why (too much work), so instead I think this user should be banned". I extracted nothing useful from your comment, which bears no relation to its parents that I can discern, am irritated to have spent time reading it and composing this reply, and also find your attitude pretty rich when you're also an anon account, and…
This is what I'd call the "enabler" archetype that gets unhappy about friction (rightfully!) but takes some.. uh.. mental shortcuts when it comes to tracing back the source of it. I'm sorry man. The problem is that this exact described dynamic (see also the other reply by me which you seem to have conveniently missed), is that it affects _all_ internet spaces and makes them utterly miserable. I agree though that this…
Gonna make this real short and simple: it's totally unclear what you're on about. You've described nothing, merely complained, infuriatingly, in the vaguest possible terms.
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#114I do find it somewhat ironic that it's implemented in Pixels first, considering the amount of AI processing phone cameras do to get a pleasant image.
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#115This reads a bit like "Door locks do not survive contact with reality."
The point is not to prevent state-sponsored actors to produce fake media, but to add friction and avoid shady marketing agency and photographs from claiming their pictures are genuine.
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#116All these funny jabs at Android's security meanwhile Pixels are literally one of the most secure devices in the industry and Google invest tons into security.
Hardware attestation stands unbroken to my knowledge, only software attestation can be faked, and even then it's a constant cat and mouse game which Google continues playing until they are done with Pixel 3 generation.
C2PA is not immune to the analogue hole, sure, but dark room + photo of a photo approach falls apart the moment you bake in depth data into the image, which is already done.
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what I'd call the "enabler" archetype that gets unhappy about friction (rightfully!) but takes some.. uh.. mental shortcuts when it comes to tracing back the source of it. I'm sorry man. The problem is that this exact described dynamic (see also the other reply by me which you seem to have conveniently missed), is that it affects _all_ internet spaces and makes them utterly miserable. I agree though that this…
Gonna make this real short and simple: it's totally unclear what you're on about. You've described nothing, merely complained, infuriatingly, in the vaguest possible terms.
Don't take this as dismissive or a dunk or anything like that, but maybe an LLM can help with unpacking?
At least I know that they understand my writing and that they can help me understand other writing I don't.
I can assure you that there is a point. Whether it is worth bothering is of course your decision. I'd wager probably not, but I guess that depends. No hard feelings either way.
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with "I'm fairly certain this will defeat 99.9% of malicious users". Also, note that C2PA should have something like Level 3 as well: "The image is mathematically proven to have come from the physical camera sensor." It's somehow difficult to achieve this, but it's possible (although the attacks will always be possible of course).
Difficult and also solves nothing, since you can just point the camera at a screen.
There is active research addressing this problem, for example https://www.usenix.org/system/files/usenixsecurity25-park.pd...
But yeah, difficult too :)
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it makes preparing training material for Machine Learning significantly easier How?
A huge problem with ML training is the ‘ouroboros issue’ - training ML with input from other MLs breaks things in very deep (but difficult to stop/detect when it’s happening) ways due to the way the internal math works (model collapse). Right now, the Internet training set is becoming more and more contaminated with better and better generative AI images and video. It makes the models more screwed up, and makes it ve…
I think the term "AI incest" would sum this up :)
Re: C2PA Cameras Do Not Survive Contact with Reality
#120This reads a bit like "Door locks do not survive contact with reality." The point is not to prevent state-sponsored actors to produce fake media, but to add friction and avoid shady marketing agency and photographs from claiming their pictures are genuine.
Yeah, the target is not the cryptographic "safe forever", but a real world "safer than not having it".
If we're trying to decide whether a high profile politician has committed a crime, then yeah, C2PA on the footage isn't fully trustworthy. However, every bit of footage you get that corroborates the story raises the threshold of the attack.
If we're trying to decide whether Joe Everyman has crossed a double solid while driving his truck? C2PA is probably good enough. The chances of that footage being faked by a malicious party would be low even without C2PA, but C2PA makes them even lower.