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Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

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Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#91

Post by jpgvm »

phire wrote: post #41
Snafuh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luca Versari, one of the devs between both libraries, has a performance dashboard to compare performance between the two https://jxl-rs-perf.lucaversari.it/ jxl-rs started to outperform the C++ library 2 months ago.

As much as I enjoy rust, there is no reason why a c++ library can’t be optimised to match the rust implementation. It’s very rare that the actual performance benefits of rust implementations come from rust itself (though it does often push you to slightly better patterns). They usually come from the fact that rust implementations are usually a second (or 3rd, or 4th) iteration of the design, and the lessons learned h…

Usually what happens is you make the choice to do a Rust port or rewrite, you maintain the C++ for a while and then eventually the Rust port matches it on perf then the will to maintain the C++ version falls off a cliff.

Seeing this at $DAY_JOB already. I suspect soon at $DAY_JOB the only 2 low level languages approved for greenfield will be Rust and Ada/SPARK.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#92

Post by jaffathecake »

danielheath wrote: post #24
odo1242 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It compresses better than webp*, has really good progressive decoding (current encoders are able to encode the image such that the most important part of the image gets decoded first, and you only need the first ~20% of the image to display it as a thumbnail), and it's also a very flexible format (unlike avif) since it can also display lossless files* and display much larger images than AVIF can. Also the compatibili…

One particularly interesting (to me, at least) approach using progressive decoding was described by Jake Archibald ( https://jakearchibald.com/2025/present-and-future-of-progres... ). If browsers extended `srcset` with support for HTTP Range requests, we could use a progressive-encoded jpg (xl or not) file as the source for multiple detail levels. A device with a small screen would request the first 10kb of the image…

I don't think this is going to work out. With the way progressive loading works in JXL, you don't really hit "good looking" points aside from at DC resolution.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#93

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

hn92726819 wrote: post #47
phire wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I enjoy rust, there is no reason why a c++ library can’t be optimised to match the rust implementation. It’s very rare that the actual performance benefits of rust implementations come from rust itself (though it does often push you to slightly better patterns). They usually come from the fact that rust implementations are usually a second (or 3rd, or 4th) iteration of the design, and the lessons learned h…

I don't understand why anyone would continue working on the c++ project once the rust one started beating it in performance

To catch conformance issues by comparing two implementations. Perhaps to support obscure platforms only available through gcc.

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#94

Post by socalgal2 »

Implicated wrote: post #32
Sammi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webp lossy is better (compresses more with higher quality image results) than jpeg at everything except smooth gradients at high quality settings according to the research I remember doing. Webp lossy can't seem to get rid of banding until you go ultra high quality settings. Jpeg can show blue skies without banding at much more reasonable quality settings. So webp is better at anything where smaller files is preferre…

> JpegXL will be the best of all worlds choice in a few years when software support is good. Where is the software support lacking other than the browsers at this point?

I suspect there are a few 10s of thousands of websites that still only accept Jpeg (as a user upload). Some accept PNG. Few accept HEIF, almost none accept JPEG-XL

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#95

Post by Vinnl »

modeless wrote: post #8
Gander5739 wrote: post #3

Chrome appears to be doing the same: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/-gDoj...

This is awesome! All it took was a Rust implementation I guess?

Since Sep 4, 2024: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/1064

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#97

Post by wao0uuno »

rdsubhas wrote: post #61

JXL is one of the technologies that I hope we can fully transition over, i.e. in a couple of years nobody (even non-tech-savvy people) are sharing or copying or saving JPEGs.

What's wrong with JPEG and why is not using it beneficial in any way?

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#98

Post by Lvl999Noob »

pibaker wrote: post #54
phire wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I enjoy rust, there is no reason why a c++ library can’t be optimised to match the rust implementation. It’s very rare that the actual performance benefits of rust implementations come from rust itself (though it does often push you to slightly better patterns). They usually come from the fact that rust implementations are usually a second (or 3rd, or 4th) iteration of the design, and the lessons learned h…

I suspect the real reason is safety. Rust isn't bulletproof but it's certainly much better than C++ when it comes to defending against memory corruption related attacks. And when you are building a decoder for untrusted data sent over the internet, this kind of thing matters a lot more.

For safety in decoding, isn't there WUFFS, also by Google, that's guaranteed safe and fast?

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#99

Post by cbolton »

llm_nerd wrote: post #72
spartanatreyu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> JXL was dead. Apple is who brought it back to life No, it was actually the PDF Association. They added JXL to the PDF standard. If google wanted to maintain support for displaying PDFs, they would need to add support for JXL.

The PDF consortium added JXL to the PDF spec two years after Apple deployed support to billions of devices. To anyone ackchyually paying attention to the JXL spec, lamenting that this superior format wallowed in obscurity (largely, it should be noted, because Google dumped it, and so many others just follow the leader of Google), Apple actually completely changed the path of the format's adoption.

To summarize the timeline:

2015-2021: Google and Cloudinary develop the technical foundations, work on standardization with the JPEG group and write the reference implementation

2021: Chrome and Firefox introduce experimental support

2022: The Chrome team decides to remove the experimental support, citing lack of interest in the ecosystem

2023: Apple surprises by shipping support in all their products

2024: Firefox says they don't want the attack surface of 100K lines of multithreaded C++ but they will ship support if Google implements a Rust version

September 2025: Google delivers jxl-rs v0.1.0 (a Rust implementation)

October 2025: The PDF Association announces they want to include the format in PDF, citing the need for HDR support in particular

November 2025: The Chrome team reverses its position, citing Safari support, Firefox's new stance, Interop proposals and the PDF announcement.

So while Google played the largest part by far in making JPEG-XL a thing, Apple probably played an outsize role in getting it adopted so fast. But its long-term fate? Who knows... The PDF Association might well have adopted JPEG-XL without Apple: they cited HDR support, wide-gamut, ultra-high resolution and channel number, not "works on iOS". And having it as the format for HDR in PDF would have forced Chrome's hand no matter what Apple did.

(Small heads up: the "anyone with a clue agrees with me" framing is more grating than useful.)

Re: Firefox 157 will include JPEG XL by default on all platforms

#100

Post by cbolton »

modeless wrote: post #8
Gander5739 wrote: post #3

Chrome appears to be doing the same: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/-gDoj...

This is awesome! All it took was a Rust implementation I guess?

I just wrote a timeline here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49445897
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