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Starbase, LA

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Re: Starbase, LA

#501

Post by bryik »

WalterBright wrote: post #442
wyre wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way? There is nothing inherent about economic freedom that leads to a healthy, educated, engaged, and safe population, in the same way there is nothing inherent about a healthy, smart, and safe population that leads to economic freedom. The US is one of the most economically free places in the world, and always has been, yet obesity is at all time highs, gen Z is the first generation to score less on standard…

Free markets mean the only way to make money legally is to provide a product or service that other people want to buy. And people want to be healthy, educated, engaged and safe. In other words, it takes advantage of the inherently selfish nature of people to make others better off. > obesity is at all time highs Obesity is a choice. I know people won't like me writing that. I know it is very hard to lose weight. It's…

> The US was much more economically free in the 1800s than now

Not much economic freedom for slaves or for Indians forced off their land (e.g. illegal seizure of the Black Hills by the US government [0], the Cherokee in Georgia, etc).

Prior to 1900s-era state laws and the federal Securities acts, you could sell fraudulent investments backed by nothing but the blue skies of Kansas. I suppose that's an economic freedom that was lost, can't say I miss it.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_the_Black_Hills

Re: Starbase, LA

#502

Post by stackghost »

WalterBright wrote: post #485
stackghost wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A truly free market is also free of regulation and embraces predatory actions by monopolists. Think being paid in company scrip instead of dollars. Think a single food supply monopoly with patented seeds you can be prosecuted for propagating, and harmful additives in food because it's cheaper. Think better education inaccessible for those nincompoops who weren't born into wealth. Serves them right for choosing to be…

> company scrip Did you know that paychecks are private money? They aren't legal tender. RSU's are company scrip, too. Besides, nobody can make you take a job you don't want. > patented seeds Patents are a government invention, and I'm on record opposing them. > harmful additives Harming and/or defrauding customers is against the law and is actionable. > better education inaccessible Government run schools are pretty…

>Did you know that paychecks are private money? They aren't legal tender.

I did know this, actually. Thankfully your banks are not free market profiteers. They're subject to stringent regulations to ensure a more orderly and efficient market, and thus they'll dependably convert cheques to dollars. Another point against free market absolutism.

>Harming and/or defrauding customers is against the law and is actionable.

That's why Big Tobacco was dismantled and are no longer advertising and selling harmful, addictive products to teens, right?

Teenagers after all are well-known for their astute abilities to assess risk and make rational, informed decisions that are in their long-term best interests, right?

More regulation is needed here, not less.

>Government run schools are pretty much bottom of the barrel.

In the USA, certainly. That's not an indictment of public education as a whole, though, only of American society's "Fuck you, I got mine" values. If Americans were less selfish they could have the most highly-educated citizens on the planet, with global-elite schooling available to every American schoolchild.

In any case, free market absolutism is delusional for all but the billionaire class (for whom it's optimal) and I'm not interested in continuing this conversation further.

Re: Starbase, LA

#503

Post by WalterBright »

bryik wrote: post #501
WalterBright wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free markets mean the only way to make money legally is to provide a product or service that other people want to buy. And people want to be healthy, educated, engaged and safe. In other words, it takes advantage of the inherently selfish nature of people to make others better off. > obesity is at all time highs Obesity is a choice. I know people won't like me writing that. I know it is very hard to lose weight. It's…

> The US was much more economically free in the 1800s than now Not much economic freedom for slaves or for Indians forced off their land (e.g. illegal seizure of the Black Hills by the US government [0], the Cherokee in Georgia, etc). Prior to 1900s-era state laws and the federal Securities acts, you could sell fraudulent investments backed by nothing but the blue skies of Kansas. I suppose that's an economic freedom…

Yes, we know a slave economy is not a free market.

> you could sell fraudulent investments

Fraud is against the law in a free market.

Re: Starbase, LA

#504

Post by Krasnol »

thegrim33 wrote: post #196
aksss wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incremental domestic capital investment, good. The level of cynicism, shit-talking, and schadenfreude wish-casting in response to this is crazy. Start cheering on successes. Resist the deconstructionist mindset.

The doomerism has two primary sources: 1) Political - The ideology/party spreading the doomerism promotes that they're the ones that can "fix it", if only you vote for them. 2) Adversarial countries, primarily China - Using the internet to convince members of western civilization to hate their civilization, hate their economic system, hate their history, hate their compatriots, adopt a no motivation defeatist attitud…

How come you are not addressing the most obvious reason?

People hat the troll. From all around the political spectrums (well...maybe not on their far edges), people have been disgusted by what Musk has become and everything around him has became toxic because of it.

You don't have to make it about politics. It's just about being a morally civilised human.

Re: Starbase, LA

#505

Post by nrr »

remarkEon wrote: post #476
nrr wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be biased, but everything under the Division of Mathematical Sciences in the MPS directorate is important. Math is one of those weird fields that tends to touch everything else even if not directly, and it's impossible to know prima facie which areas of research will be useful downstream to the sciences and engineering.

Most of the important maths research is funded by the Department of War. NSF is a good chunk, I'd have to look it up, but I wouldn't be concerned about this at all. Math is important for the war planners, always has been always will be.

Thanks for sharing. I don't work on weapons as a matter of deep conviction, so I'll continue to be concerned about this.

Re: Starbase, LA

#506

Post by jedberg »

WalterBright wrote: post #291
jcranmer wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for putting words into my mouth that I didn't say. Especially when they're quite literally the opposite of my message. Although, given that I pointed out that Elon literally did the exact same thing, why do you trust him when he does it? Or is it simply that you're unaware that he does stuff like that?

> why do you trust him when he does it? His companies have made many monumental engineering achievements at his direction.

> His companies have made many monumental engineering achievements at his direction.

If you know anyone who has worked at one his companies, especially at a high level, you would know that they made those achievements despite his directions. The SpaceX team was ecstatic when he bought Twitter, because it meant he would be around a lot less.

The policy at SpaceX was basically avoid Elon, and if you had to talk to him, just agree to whatever he said and then not do it. He almost always forgot by the next time he talked to you, and if he didn't, you just said it was really hard.

Since he doesn't understand rocket engineering, it was pretty easy to get away with that.

And the people who worked with him at PayPal would tell you that he knows nothing about software engineering and they basically threw away everything he wrote, but they had to be nice because he had a lot of stock after his company was acquired by PayPal but called a merger.

Elon's main skill is marketing himself. He next best skill is marketing his companies' jobs to talented people and getting them to agree to work there.

That is certainly a critical skill for a CEO, but he is not a great engineer.

Re: Starbase, LA

#507

Post by stackghost »

slopinthebag wrote: post #496
stackghost wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A truly free market is also free of regulation and embraces predatory actions by monopolists. Think being paid in company scrip instead of dollars. Think a single food supply monopoly with patented seeds you can be prosecuted for propagating, and harmful additives in food because it's cheaper. Think better education inaccessible for those nincompoops who weren't born into wealth. Serves them right for choosing to be…

> A truly free market is also free of regulation and embraces predatory actions by monopolists. This is a non sequitur and also makes no sense. A free market doesn’t “embrace” anything, it’s the sum of the decisions individuals make absent external coercion. That you might be unhappy with the decisions others make doesn’t necessarily make it a problem . But every single economy is heavily controlled, regulated, and i…

Sounds like we agree that the USA does not have a truly free market, and that some regulation is essential. I'm glad!

Re: Starbase, LA

#508

Post by slopinthebag »

stackghost wrote: post #507
slopinthebag wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A truly free market is also free of regulation and embraces predatory actions by monopolists. This is a non sequitur and also makes no sense. A free market doesn’t “embrace” anything, it’s the sum of the decisions individuals make absent external coercion. That you might be unhappy with the decisions others make doesn’t necessarily make it a problem . But every single economy is heavily controlled, regulated, and i…

Sounds like we agree that the USA does not have a truly free market, and that some regulation is essential. I'm glad!

We agree on the first point yes, lol.

Re: Starbase, LA

#509

Post by Krasnol »

WalterBright wrote: post #305
Noaidi wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither is Elon Musk...

Musk has been simultaneously accused of cutting spending and failing to cut spending.

You could do this misdirection thing on x but here, you'll find people who see through this tactics instantly.

Yes, he has cut expenditure but what has been critiqued was WHERE he did that.

USAID for example.

And yes, he did fail to save (much) money in the process and it will cost the US even more in the future because the loss of soft power, intelligence, etc. USAID alone provided is unmeasurable high.

And this is just USAID as an popular example. There are thousands of veterans who lost their jobs. Waste, fraud, or abuse are missing and what remains is a cringe clown rising his arm because he's so edgy and needs attention very very desperately.

Re: Starbase, LA

#510

Post by watwut »

ericmay wrote: post #122
watwut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Musks money and twitter takeover did a lot of work to convince Americans vote for Trump. Then Musk joined the administration and continued digging the hole

Ok. The OP wrote: > You're being down-voted (and so shall I) but I think you're right. Despite all the animosity towards him, Musk is doing things that are economically meaningful for our nation. In the context of the US building big things, ramping up manufacturing, doing Space exploration, &c. and the person I replied to wrote: > Musk has done a huge amount to put us INTO this situation What situation did he put us…

It was reaction to

> We'll need a few more of "him" to dig us out of this situation I reckon, but overall I still hope it's possible.

There is no hope if people like Musk are unnacountable and increasingly powerful. The situation you need to dig out of was caused by people like Musk.

And large dream projects wont make the hole smaller. They will make it deeper.

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