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Starbase, LA

spacex.com

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Re: Starbase, LA

#491

Post by sixothree »

oceanplexian wrote: post #180
rtkwe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issue is these kinds of construction jobs are temporary. It's similar to but not quite as bad as datacenters where you get a very short term influx of skilled highly paid labor but those jobs don't stick around after the construction is over. Starbase will require more people on site at least.

The construction is temporary but what are the economic impacts of having a fully operational spaceport that launches 20,000% more tonnage to orbit than the Florida Space Coast? Probably a great deal of long term economic impact.

My friend. If you know anything about Louisiana and their current government is that the people are there to be exploited. This is not going to help the people of the area at all.

Re: Starbase, LA

#492

Post by hadlock »

jackhalford wrote: post #418

> In Vermilion Parish, the shoreline is eroding between 3.3 and 23 feet per year What does this mean, how can a shoreline erode

The oil and gas companies brought in huge massive drilling rigs in the 1930s-1960s. The marsh was too soft/soggy to bring in the equipment overland, so they just... dredged huge canals in the soggy marsh a couple feet deep. You can see this in the opening shot of the video with the boat in the narrow canal. Labor was cheap and they were making a ton of money. They would put the dredged mud on one side of the channel, at random, causing random tracts to flood and most of the plants died, and then the marshes slowly sank below the water. One EPA report says for every acre of dredging they did (and they did a LOT) cause 3 more additional acres of erosion. If you go zoom in on the area where they're building, there are big squares and rectangles of dredging material, surrounding what look like square lakes. The state has been trying to get the oil and gas companies to restore the land but not much luck. Part of this deal with SpaceX (allegedly) is to restore the land and close off the canals to prevent further erosion.

Re: Starbase, LA

#493

Post by hadlock »

edg5000 wrote: post #475
Brybry wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grade school level Louisiana info (probably somewhat wrong): It's generally brackish marsh/swamp land. Basically think silt/dirt with a bunch of plants evolved for this specific environment. Then you take a bunch of humans and you cut down all the really old cypress trees for lumber. To facilitate that process you cut channels through all the plants that are in the way so you can ship that lumber via new unobstructed…

In the Netherlands we rely on beach grass, a type of grass that can root well in loose sand, to keep dunes together. This forms the main sea barrier. The grass has historically been replanted at least partially to maintain the protection. This spans back at least a few hundred years I believe. It's interesting that Lousisana works so differently. I always kind of assumed that dunes would always be needed to keep the…

Most of the erosion is due to oil and gas companies dredging poorly thought out canals to move drilling equipment through the marsh, causing unslowed erosion for ~70+ years.

Re: Starbase, LA

#494

Post by sixothree »

WalterBright wrote: post #261
mthoms wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3) Elon Musk has fascist leanings and many people don't want to live in a world where such a person has ever increasing wealth, influence and power. Especially since he has no qualms about using that same wealth and influence to subvert and distort elections, both domestic and foreign.

[flagged]

He didn't cut government spending, just ask the GAO. He did though go on a rampage to prove that brown people weren't worthy of the positions they held.

Re: Starbase, LA

#496

Post by slopinthebag »

stackghost wrote: post #481
WalterBright wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's just as possible for gifted software engineers to have flawed reasoning about the economy. Are you sure your reasoning is flawless? Free markets correspond with prosperity, in case after case.

A truly free market is also free of regulation and embraces predatory actions by monopolists. Think being paid in company scrip instead of dollars. Think a single food supply monopoly with patented seeds you can be prosecuted for propagating, and harmful additives in food because it's cheaper. Think better education inaccessible for those nincompoops who weren't born into wealth. Serves them right for choosing to be…

> A truly free market is also free of regulation and embraces predatory actions by monopolists.

This is a non sequitur and also makes no sense. A free market doesn’t “embrace” anything, it’s the sum of the decisions individuals make absent external coercion. That you might be unhappy with the decisions others make doesn’t necessarily make it a problem.

But every single economy is heavily controlled, regulated, and interfered with, and the so-called “free market” examples people use like healthcare in the States are examples of the most tightly controlled and regulated markets (if you can even call them that) on the planet. So when people complain about “free markets” they’re complaining about heavily controlled markets without even knowing it.

Re: Starbase, LA

#497

Post by slopinthebag »

wyre wrote: post #465
raptured-banal- wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What's a bummer is that Walter is a smart and talented engineer, yet has a very stubborn and out of touch economic perspective that is at least half a century expired. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Bright

If he is a libertarian that perspective is more modern than socialism, technocracy, or pretty much any other political ideology. Modern libertarianism is from the mid 20th century.

And if you share the view that societies gradually shift from materialist values (economic stability, physical safety, law and order, and maintaining traditional group norms) towards post-materialist values (individual autonomy, freedom of speech, gender equality, environmental protection, and self-expression) as societies develop, then freedom of exchange is something you would expect from a more advanced perspective, not one which is outdated. What is outdated is authoritarian, statist, and technocratic rule.

Re: Starbase, LA

#498

Post by 9dev »

zamadatix wrote: post #479
phlakaton wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no debate. There never was. There is only concession to the diktat or resistance.

Debate used to be the staunchest form of resistance. This last decade, racing to call the opposition a crybaby and declare it activism seems to be more in vogue.

No, sorry, that’s a strawman. You’re framing this as if we were talking about some nuanced policy issue, which it isn’t. The concrete situation is a president unilaterally renaming a geographical feature for no other defensible reason than hubris, in disagreement with the rest of the region.

I agree with GP - there is no debate to be had over this, only rejection.

Re: Starbase, LA

#499

Post by impulser_ »

boplicity wrote: post #149
bko wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, government waste and most policy sucks. But there's no reason we can't do stuff or even try. For instance, take Tesla. It wasn't anything revolutionary. Any auto manufacturer could have invested in battery technology and building a compelling EV, but they didn't. Same with manufacturing in America. Every manufacturer took as given that they have to outsource manufacturing to oversees and components to t…

It's easy to forget that Tesla was made possible almost exclusively through government incentives. This is something that most people seem to have forgotten: Tesla exists because the government created incentive programs that paid in cold hard cash. Musk took advantage of those programs, and Tesla absolutely would not have been nearly as successful (and likely not existed) without it.

The government should give incentives to do things that benefit the future of the country. All auto manufactures had the same incentives but instead of building actual good vehicles they instead shipped more production to Mexico and continue to build the absolute most dog shit vehicles in the world.

Not a single US auto manufacturer, outside of Tesla, has a good EV, nor FSD. Waymo is buying thousands of Chinese cars because of how shit US car manufacturer are.

They are the worst of the worst. They shouldn't even be in business they are that bad at building cars which they literally invented.

Re: Starbase, LA

#500

Post by testing22321 »

sixothree wrote: post #489
testing22321 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be clear: I don’t care about Musk as a person. I care about facts. I care about achievements. Just the same as saying Israel is committing genocide is not antisemitism, saying Musk has achieved incredible things is not caring about or supporting him. Both cases are simply stating facts without any judgement or show of support/not support.

> I don’t care about Musk as a person. How convenient. You have to ignore him on a personal level to be a supporter like you are. Because you know he's a repulsive individual on every level. And if you didn't qualify your support for him you'd debase yourself.

I’m not a supporter.

I’m simply stating facts That are easily verifiable.

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