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Oceans hit highest temperature on record

bbc.com

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Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#631

Post by autoexec »

lmz wrote: post #592
autoexec wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the phrase "Now we know better". When the industrial revolution came to the US we were ignorant and we polluted the world like crazy because of that. Today, we've learned from that mistake. We now know that you can and must control the pollution factories spew out into the world, even though doing that cuts into corporate profits. China doesn't get a pass to pollute at historic US levels for their indust…

These countries are competitive entities. Even though the planet is shared, the earlier developed nations have gained advantages from their polluting (and at many times, colonial) past that allowed them to pull ahead of other countries. Now they want to stop others going down the same path without giving up their entrenched advantage. That is pulling the ladder up. Either give up those advantages in the form of repar…

They don't want to stop others from following the same path, they just don't want them to do it while disregarding every lesson we learned the hard way whenever it's convenient for them. That's not pulling the ladder up, it's more like wanting OSHA regulations to be followed while they climb it for everyone's safety, theirs included. It's a little slower, but everybody still gets to where they want to go.

Reparations are already in progress and have been for generations. Extensive efforts have been made to start restoring the polluted land and water. Workers rights and health have been improved. The use of slavery has been greatly reduced. The ozone layer is recovering. Trillions have been spent on research and development into ways to help repair and prevent the damage developed nations have inflicted on the planet. Even after all this time we're still working on rebuilding what was destroyed and we've still got a long away to go. in some areas we're actually backsliding. We can't let every developing nation destroy our progress and set us back as if nobody knows any better. Our past was both costly and profitable. We made many of our mistakes out of ignorance, but we know better now and everybody needs to start acting like it.

It's not all a burden for the now developing countries either. They get the benefit of not having to start their industrialization from nothing. They've got access to centuries of knowledge and technology the developed world obtained at great cost. Having the perspective and advantage of all that history and progress however also makes it unacceptable for them to make the same costly mistakes just to satisfy their greed. Now that we all know what is at stake, it falls on everyone to make sure that many of humanity's past sins aren't repeated.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#632

Post by senordevnyc »

sfn42 wrote: post #574
senordevnyc wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should take a glance at what all the tech we take for granted today looked like in 1976.

It's not about tech. It's about the fact that the atmosphere has like 0,00something% CO2, so you need to process like a thousand tons of air to theoretically extract one ton of CO2. You basically need to suck the entire atmosphere through a factory, it's not about tech it's just a big fan. And then of course you need something to process all that air as fast as it comes in.

Why are these technical problems insurmountable, particularly over 50 years?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#633

Post by autoexec »

pfisch wrote: post #616
autoexec wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geoengineering is just a gamble corporations want the world to take on their behalf. There's a chance that doing it would fuck things up way worse than they are now, but there's also a chance that it makes things a little better and if that happens it will reduce the pressure on those corporations to make the changes we already know with 100% certainty would improve things, but which would also directly eat into thei…

We are already geoengineering every single day. There is no version of this that has no risk. We can continue to do it aimlessly, or we can act with purpose.

We can act with purpose to reduce the amount of geoengineering we're doing every single day, and to reduce the harms we've caused in the process. More of the problem is not the solution. Especially not when purposeful geoengineering involves experimental tinkering with a system we don't really understand in the first place and can't replace if we get it wrong.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#634

Post by tomhow »

asdfman123 wrote: post #600
tomhow wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make insinuations you aren't willing to back with evidence. We've had guidelines against this for years, precisely because these claims make for such repetitive and empty discussion, and this subthread is a perfect specimen of that. Any time anyone provides us with evidence of manipulation of the site, we investigate it and take action. We – of course – care about manipulation on HN; the only reason this is a s…

I invite you to do your own research. I'm not going to argue for every uncontroversial claim. If you believe it's controversial, see my first sentence.

We are monitoring for manipulation all the time; we're highly motivated to do so, because the fastest path to the decline of HN is the one where people lose trust in it. Thus every one of our moderation decisions begins with community trust. People who care about the health of HN point out evidence of manipulation when they see it. Commenting like yours is a form of trolling.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#635

Post by noosphr »

Timon3 wrote: post #627
leonidasrup wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was only comparing the fact, that because of nuclear phase-out and the future coal phase-out both the previous and current Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy agreed that a large expansion of gas power plants is necessary, this was known already in 2024. If we are now criticizing persons, please remember that German Economy Minister Robert Habeck famously stated in July 2022 during the energy crisis that "we d…

Now please explain: why are you painting environmentalists as responsible for the phaseout, when the vast majority of nuclear plants were shut down under the conservative CDU? And when the Greens were simply following the laws established by the CDU following Fukushima? The Greens, by the way, extended the lifetime of the existing plants beyond what the CDU had planned. Why are you failing to mention that? If you wer…

Would the greens have done anything else if they were in power? This has been their stated policy goal since the 1970s.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#636

Post by infinite8s »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #277
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am glad that I live far away from the effects but it is sad to think of people losing all kinds of things for the lack of respect of Mother Earth! I thought this too, feeling a bit more smug living in southern Ontario, safer than my family in BC and Alberta next to raging forest fires and potential drought. But seems we now get a few weeks of forest fire smoke every year even down here in lush green great lakes l…

> Plus watching the Children of Men style xenophobia and callous disregard for climate refugees set in all over the world. There are no climate refugees... Yet.

The collapse of Syria was partly due to an extended drought causing famine. A lot of the current xenophobia in Europe is due to the small amount of refugees escaping the effects of this famine and subsequent civil war.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#637

Post by Timon3 »

noosphr wrote: post #626
Timon3 wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck I'm honestly flabbergasted at this propaganda attempt, because you happen to have left out (just a tiny excerpt): - Reiche's previous employer being one of Germany's biggest energy firms (Eon), and almost every decision she has made happens to be according to Eons interests - Reiche ha…

>Seriously, I'd love to know - why do you deliberately spread propaganda for the fossil industry, like you did here? I don't get it, the project was started by a Greens minister and continued by a non-green minister? The wall of text has nothing to do with anything.

Your claim was:

> They had enough power to close down all the nuclear power plants in Germany.

But the CDU were the ones who closed down almost all the nuclear power plants in Germany, and as I've shown the CDU are anything but environmentalists, so this is simply wrong.

My "wall of text" is to prove that the CDU are not behaving in the interests of environmentalists, rather nobody here can believe how deeply they've sold their souls to oil & gas.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#638

Post by Timon3 »

noosphr wrote: post #635
Timon3 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now please explain: why are you painting environmentalists as responsible for the phaseout, when the vast majority of nuclear plants were shut down under the conservative CDU? And when the Greens were simply following the laws established by the CDU following Fukushima? The Greens, by the way, extended the lifetime of the existing plants beyond what the CDU had planned. Why are you failing to mention that? If you wer…

Would the greens have done anything else if they were in power? This has been their stated policy goal since the 1970s.

That does not matter at all regarding your initial statement, which is simply wrong. You didn't argue that the environmentalists would have done so, you're spreading the false rumor that environmentalists were responsible for closing down all the nuclear plants.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#639

Post by DoctorOetker »

wat10000 wrote: post #614
DoctorOetker wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats false, the rainwater never fell to the ground and teleported to the ocean. Just consider the nearest rivers near you, now imagine someone diverting the river upstream to form an artificial lake (let's ignore the other environmental impacts of that for the sake of argument), to enable formation of something akin to the Panama Canal. I'm sure you'd have certain reservations and complaints about the local loss of…

Is Panama actually desalinating to make up for water they could have been getting from Chagres River if not for the canal? Panama is a tropical country that gets a lot of rain and I couldn't find any mention of this. The article you posted doesn't say anything like that.

I never claimed they were? thats what you would have to do to recover the lost fresh water. In order to compare apples to apples, I compared the costs of allowing the fresh water to be lost to the ocean, and then desalinating an equivalent amount to the costs of simply not letting the fresh water get lost to operating water locks.

> that gets lots of rain

just like population / industry demand and renewable supply fluctuate, fresh water availability and demand fluctuate, its not that complicated.

scroll up the thread: someone posts a BBC video where it is claimed the water lock operators will allow fewer ships through because its costing too much fresh water, they are already suffering a strong deficit in rainfall this spring / summer and El Nino is coming. The article from Le Monde states effectively the same things. But here you come toting around the yearly average as if this potable statistic will make the country less thirsty.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#640

Post by prime_ursid »

lbriner wrote: post #2

When I was younger, I remember thinking, "a few degrees, what difference does that make?" Then when I grew older I realised that in Climate science a few degrees is the difference between survival and annihilation. A few degrees warmer in the ocean and El Niño becomes an incredible problem for half the world. I am glad that I live far away from the effects but it is sad to think of people losing all kinds of things f…

If the climate effects don’t get you, the political fallout of a million climate refugees showing up at your borders will.
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