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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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821–830 of 873 posts

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in japan the homeless people clean up after themselves and don’t destroy everything what’s the difference here?

How many of their homeless are addicted to drugs or nectary ill? It seems in the US almost all visible homeless fall into at least one of those groups. Fentanyl and meth seems to be largely a North America issue. I previously was curious how other countries dealt with it. The only country I found that had previously had a meth issue was Estonia or Latvia (not sure anymore). It apparently was really bad for years. The…

Most Asian countries are pretty serious about keeping drugs out of their countries. In Japan's case it's a little easier since they're an island nation.

You can get a life sentence there for first offense import or manufacture of narcotics. Beyond that, your family will suffer socially.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we incarcerate people at a higher rate than any other advanced nation, BY FAR Crime is committed at a higher rate than in any other advanced nation, though some of the others are catching up. > The idea that we are soft on crime is insane Not even a little bit insane. There are a million criminal laws on the books that do not get enforced at all. For example, I live in a state that is stereotypically conservative a…

And yet your prisons are full of people in jail for marijuana related crimes. Because putting people in prison for weed does not stop people smoking weed.

You don't go to jail for possession of weed in most US states. You won't even go to jail for dealing unless you've been busted multiple times or you're moving heavy weight.

When you see statistics about people incarcerated on marijuana charges, what they normally obscure is either that's not the only charge or they pled down from something more serious.

There isn't a single person in federal custody there for marijuana possession and only that.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#823
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is you can’t get people off the street if they don’t want to get off the street unless you do it forcibly . You can end the homeless problem overnight but SF is too empathetic. I’m not even saying this is a fault, I’d rather they fail on the side of empathy than succeed violently.

Very few people want to be homeless. The alternatives offered to them just somehow manage to be even worse than homelessness.

The problem is one of the alternatives they consider worse than homelessness is a life without opioids.

I had cousin who was homeless in San Diego. Over the years she came into money a couple times, either from family members or through inheritance. Instead of getting a place to live she figured drugs were a better use for that money. We tried everything to get her off the street, and nothing worked. She wouldn't even stay at a shelter. Because she had no intention of giving up the drugs.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The causation arrow isn't unidirectional, though. Mental illness causes some homelessness, particularly often because in the US healthcare system medications are expensive and can lead to bankruptcy. (And it is certainly not the only path to bankruptcy in the US either.) But more and more studies are showing that the biggest problem with homelessness in the US is that it causes mental illness. (Same thing is being fo…

lol suuure it does. I totally believe that becoming homeless causes people to stand on sidewalks jabbering obscenities and smearing shit all over the place. Why the fuck are we so soft on these gutter trash in this country.

They are humans and American citizens. They deserve our compassion.

They just don’t deserve to destroy our public places.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not connected to police enforcement, though? In Europe and now the US the new generations are anti-police, anti-enforcement and generally consider authority and rules to be proof of an unjust society (X group is N percent more likely to receive a criminal summons when ..). In the US in slow motion we could see a world in which you could go to a big chain pharmacy and retrieve your own toothpaste and shamp…

NYC ended up spending $1,440 per dollar in fares recovered on stopping fare jumpers, which is probably why the decree came about in the first place. Is there a particular reason why you think setting gargantuan amounts of money on fire over trivial offenses makes sense?

Great. So MTA raises fares and complains about not being able to meet revenue, causing the state to have to funnel more to it.

Nevermind that the economics of your argument are completely blind to the fact that the funding sources of the MTA and the NYPD are completely different.

More crazy is the downstream effects of putting up your hands and letting crimes go.

All this for what ? Social justice? Here's my counter to that - the subway is a public good, For the People a socialist would say.

So you encourage stealing from The People.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#826
post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddy, I can deprive you of several days of sleep, put you under severe emotional duress and have you experience a psychotic breakdown. Are you seriously saying you yourself should then be locked up for life?

Are you saying that someone experiencing a psychotic breakdown should not get psychiatric care? Try to be charitable in your interpretation.

Yeah my charitable interpretation is that it's all just a thin veneer over your main argument which is "kill the poor"

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#827
post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide any evidence that homeless people are equally or less likely to commit crimes, compared to the general population?

Look, if you make a claim - that homeless people are dangerous - then the burden of proof is on you. A scientist doesn't say, 'there's life on Venus, prove me wrong'. A lawyer doesn't say 'you burnt down the house, prove me wrong'. They have to prove their claim. Otherwise, nobody responds - in science they'd be ignored, in court the defense doesn't even need to say a word. Otherwise, we just don't know. I gave you t…

You gave an anecdote that "I've rarely seen an unhoused people do harm". I'm saying do you have any evidence beyond your assertion from personal experience that homeless people are safe?

You're making a claim that homeless people are safe, a claim that flies in the face of most people's experience and common sense.

It also flies in the face of the data:

"In 2022 the San Diego County District Attorney’s Office reported that homeless individuals were 514 times more likely to be arrested and charged with a felony and were often facing multiple criminal cases. The data shows substantially higher rates of robbery, residential burglary, assault, arson, and vandalism. " - https://www.sdcda.org/content/MediaRelease/Homeless%20Data%2...

"Los Angeles Police Department crime data from 2018 to 2021 shows that homeless individuals, while only 1 percent of the population, are suspects in 6 to 8 percent of all crimes and 11 to 15 percent of violent crimes." - https://abc7.com/feature/homeless-crime-los-angeles-data-res...

You're welcome to admit you are wrong about the precious "unhoused" who are committing assault at a rate 130x times greater than normal people in San Diego, or you can keep trying to deflect about Wall Street. $20 says you're the same type of person that thinks a pitbull is a safe nanny dog.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The causation arrow isn't unidirectional, though. Mental illness causes some homelessness, particularly often because in the US healthcare system medications are expensive and can lead to bankruptcy. (And it is certainly not the only path to bankruptcy in the US either.) But more and more studies are showing that the biggest problem with homelessness in the US is that it causes mental illness. (Same thing is being fo…

Right, so, what do you do about the guy who smears feces on the walls and won't take his meds? Because that guy is the one who makes public spaces unlivable. Including places like SRO hotels that actually could provide people with affordable living spaces.

This (straw) man scenario feels like a proximate cause versus root cause situation to me. You've managed to establish a relatively strong proximate cause (or so it seems) as "won't take his meds". Where did he get the meds he was supposed to take? How is he paying for them? Was he given the meds in a place of safety and security enough to have reason to trust the meds might help?

If you were given strange meds that you don't understand anything about by someone who wasn't your personal doctor in a situation that feels like a prison out of your control, would you take them?

That's equally a straw man question, but a useful one to maybe establish empathy for the situation that homeless "guy" might have found himself in.

That's also assuming that is the correct proximate cause. As far as I know science has not yet found exactly a "don't use excrement as spray paint" drug. There are people that will do that which don't need meds and there are people that will do that even on most anti-psychotic meds.

But let's talk about some of the root cause of it all: If you find yourself in a world that you cannot control, that won't let you use any bathroom without buying a coffee/being a customer, that doesn't want you to exist, that says you are only as valuable as the property that you own but then won't allow you any longer to own any property due to some bad luck or misfortune, at that point "the only spray paint I have to send a message about how much this world sucks" might seem pretty clear.

I find it easy to have sympathy with that sort of (straw) man, because there is a logic to it. It's not necessarily a psychotic break. At least, not necessarily at first a psychotic break.

What would I personally do to prevent that? I'd try to prevent people from being homeless in the first place. I'd try to get people mental health resources sooner ahead of crises rather than trying it do it in the middle of a different one (bankruptcy/homelessness). Which is the same as I suggested statistically seems to be the only thing that works: give people private houses with locks and keys and help them feel safe and secure in them, with a sense of ownership and privacy, and with no need to "earn" it or "rent" to keep it. Maybe it doesn't stop the person from covering "their own" walls in feces until they feel safe and secure enough (and that's still a public health problem in the meantime) to try an antipsychotic med that they need to take. But as far as I'm aware no one wants to take or trust an antipsychotic medication if they don't at first feel like they live in a safe enough or secure enough place.

Which again also circles back to "institutions are almost the correct approach, but for the wrong reasons" I mentioned before. A place with mental health resources seems to be an important part of that, still, but I don't think you can address mental health problems in a prison, especially in a society that values private property and private spaces, without first addressing the problems around homeless not having access to private property and private spaces.

But yeah, that's mostly just my opinion on the subject based on statistics and studies that I've read. You don't have to take my word on it. One archived secondary source (with additional links): https://academicweb.nd.edu/~rwilliam/ndonly/readings/SocProb...

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#829
post #440

Lots of comments here blaming the bad state of toilets on homeless people doing drugs. They're not the only issue. In France, toilets on highways are often disgusting. French highways have stupid-high tolls, so these toilets are used by people who have access to a car, and can spare a few tens of € to get to their destination faster. Not your typical drug-using homeless person. I'd say it's more that some people don'…

> In France, toilets on highways are often disgusting

For real. I once saw one totally covered in blood, like a horrible murder scene. It was one of the more rural ones, at a rest stop / park. And I just kind of rolled my eyes as I wasn't even surprised

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