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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#811

Post by dyauspitr »

crote wrote: post #486
dyauspitr wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is you can’t get people off the street if they don’t want to get off the street unless you do it forcibly . You can end the homeless problem overnight but SF is too empathetic. I’m not even saying this is a fault, I’d rather they fail on the side of empathy than succeed violently.

Very few people want to be homeless. The alternatives offered to them just somehow manage to be even worse than homelessness.

They don’t want to be homeless but they don’t want to put up with free housing drug free rules so they prefer to stay on the streets where they can keep using.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#812

Post by gambiting »

devilbunny wrote: post #807
WorldMaker wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The causation arrow isn't unidirectional, though. Mental illness causes some homelessness, particularly often because in the US healthcare system medications are expensive and can lead to bankruptcy. (And it is certainly not the only path to bankruptcy in the US either.) But more and more studies are showing that the biggest problem with homelessness in the US is that it causes mental illness. (Same thing is being fo…

Right, so, what do you do about the guy who smears feces on the walls and won't take his meds? Because that guy is the one who makes public spaces unlivable. Including places like SRO hotels that actually could provide people with affordable living spaces.

That's the guy who should be institutionalised, obviously?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#813

Post by lotsofpulp »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #786
lotsofpulp wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infeasible for a government would mean it is sufficiently expensive that it is not politically popular to spend that much money on public bathrooms. Also, Buc-ees does not offer free bathrooms in urban, dense areas with higher proportions of mentally ill and drug addicted populations, so that comparison makes no sense.

I used Buc-ee's as an example because they're famous for their clean bathrooms. But there certainly exist clean bathrooms in urban areas. I'd venture to say that those aren't all in high-end establishments that exclude any "riff-raff". It's possible to find clean toilets in urban McDonald's or Wal-Mart; maybe not all of them, but certainly not none either. And regarding expense on public bathrooms: * San Francisco sp…

The problem is a small minority ruining the commons.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2026/08/vandals-set-fires-i...

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#814

Post by nailer »

gjm11 wrote: post #809
nailer wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you're asking but it's fairly obvious: > 1. things that are unwise and can increase pressure on communities' resources > 3. The article wasn't at all about whether "they should pay for the care of the people that do". Increasing pressure on communities' resources is that community paying for people that engage in incest.

You are (and perhaps the other person also is) mixing up three questions. 1. Does doing X have costs? 2. If so, and if X is done, who should pay those costs? 3. Should we make X illegal? In the present case, first-cousin marriage does have costs, one of which is that it increases the number of children born with genetic problems that make their lives worse and (if the government pays for medical treatment to mitigate…

> You might want to argue that those costs are the fault of the particular people who entered into those marriages

Yes, hence wanting to ban incest marriages.

> and they should have to pay them. Unfortunately, in many cases they probably can't afford to do that.

No, I and the other commenter are not arguing that. Make incest marriages illegal in the UK, make incest married people ineligible to migrate to the UK. It's very simple. This thread is begininning to resemble the "left wing discourse" quote so I'll stop here.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#815

Post by grehbies »

sgirard wrote: post #706
grehbies wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About a half a dozen who were nearby when the bridge collapsed, and, of those, only two actually missed seeing it happen. *Everyone* heard it, though: a great roaring waterfall of concrete and steel that echoed across the derelict plains for minutes and miles. The local folk would have told you that it was the river flooding a month earlier what had done it; that, and the heat of that summer havign roasted the old ta…

What book is this from? I would like to read it.

The one that might get written if I ever figure out what it's about. (I truly appreciate the inadvertent encouragement.)

I can pass along some of the inspiration, at least:

https://playlists.at/youtube/embed/?playlist=FdW1CjbCNxw%2CS...

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#816

Post by doc_ick »

prmph wrote: post #801
doc_ick wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the public bathrooms I’ve been to in NYC were decent, the worst I saw was in Florida. Barely hanging together.

This one was incredibly nasty, and smelly (mostly from piss, I should say). In Brooklyn, if I remember correctly, with the Manhattan skyline in view. It was a public restroom, and I was part of walking tour group.

Yeah, that sounds about like the one I ran into in Florida. It was on a day walk on the way to St. Petersburg, and the heat just made it all worse. 0/10, not enough water, terrible place. Let alone the pills on the ground.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#817

Post by tremon »

mancerayder wrote: post #638
NalNezumi wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU(or US) can't have public toilets because it's gonna get vandalized. For fun. One thing that perplexed me endlessly during my youth living in Sweden was seeing drunk teenagers go around vandalize things for... Fun. Breaking the glass at the buss station (designed to shatter in to million pieces so you don't hurt yourself), friends enjoying graffiti, littering, throwing beer bottles on the street for fun.... During…

How is that not connected to police enforcement, though? In Europe and now the US the new generations are anti-police, anti-enforcement and generally consider authority and rules to be proof of an unjust society (X group is N percent more likely to receive a criminal summons when ..). In the US in slow motion we could see a world in which you could go to a big chain pharmacy and retrieve your own toothpaste and shamp…

You cannot have police enforcement for petty misdemeanors like those, that's way too expensive. The only means-appropriate correction is social enforcement (i.e. norms and values), but too many people think that society is other peoples' problem. That's one of the downsides of a hyper-individualist society.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#818

Post by devilbunny »

gambiting wrote: post #812
devilbunny wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so, what do you do about the guy who smears feces on the walls and won't take his meds? Because that guy is the one who makes public spaces unlivable. Including places like SRO hotels that actually could provide people with affordable living spaces.

That's the guy who should be institutionalised, obviously?

Yeah, except that because the Warren Court was so incredibly arrogant, it's almost impossible to institutionalize anyone against their will in the US unless you go through all the process of setting up guardianship.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#819

Post by mmooss »

alex43578 wrote: post #804
mmooss wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an old study, but Martell in Base-rate estimates of criminal behavior by homeless mentally ill persons in New York City found that "The rate of violent crimes was 40 times higher and the rate of nonviolent crimes 27 times higher in the homeless population". It is indeed old (1995 [0]) and that's not what the paper studied or concluded. First, the study did not gather data on the homeless population, but on men…

Can you provide any evidence that homeless people are equally or less likely to commit crimes, compared to the general population?

Look, if you make a claim - that homeless people are dangerous - then the burden of proof is on you.

A scientist doesn't say, 'there's life on Venus, prove me wrong'. A lawyer doesn't say 'you burnt down the house, prove me wrong'. They have to prove their claim. Otherwise, nobody responds - in science they'd be ignored, in court the defense doesn't even need to say a word.

Otherwise, we just don't know. I gave you the respect of taking your argument seriously, and of finding and reading your citation, even as you were hurling abuse and outrage (and maybe hadn't read it yourself, it seems). If you will step up now and contribute, you'll find a welcome reception and an interesting life and discussion. You can contribute. Someone else probably cited that quote and paper, and didn't read it, and look where it left you. You can do better than them, you can find some actual truth - and we'd both learn things, I'm certain.

But now you just don't know, admit it. Your assertion is possible of course, but IME it's also possible otherwise - homeless people are among the most vulnerable. For example, is the crime rate among homeless people more or less than the crime rate in corporate executive offices or on Wall Street or in the offices of elected representatives - I could see it either way. I just don't know.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#820

Post by 999900000999 »

doom2 wrote: post #630
999900000999 wrote: post #377

For everyone blaming homeless people, I had a highly educated white professor who explained how he became homeless for a bit. Divorce. The wife can just say she doesn’t feel comfortable with you in the house. Now you can’t find another place to live because the divorce has ruined your credit while still stuck paying the mortgage. Most of us are much closer to living in a porta potty than we’d like to think

> Most of us are much closer to living in a porta potty than we’d like to think Because of women and no-fault divorce? Didn't expect to see that conclusion in the comments. Maybe if we make it illegal it might slightly lower rates of homelessness, but let's see what it does to domestic violence, suicide, and spousal homicide statistics.

Alright.

Be single.

Get sick.

Get fired.

Medical bills will ruin you instead. America has an accelerated path to homelessness most civilized countries lack.

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