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Why some US restaurants are banning tips

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Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#391
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of tips is that they are the workers', 100%. It's also a variable cost based on the willingness to pay, so it creates a form of price discrimination, where those willing to spend more, spend more, those wanting to spend less, spend less. Those two factors lead to the inescapable conclusion that tipped staff make more money . Price discrimination captures surplus value that simply is not available to…

You sound a lot more like an owner than an employee. Have you ever been relying on tips to survive? I mean someone who does not benefit from the system, I'm sure some employees benefit from it, in some cases. > Those two factors lead to the inescapable conclusion that tipped staff make more money Or have you ever... talked with someone who relied on tips to survive, in an environment where they don't benefit from it?…

Yes, I have both been a server, and regularly spend time with people who still work as servers. My whole point is that we did benefit from it, by making much fatter paychecks than we would otherwise.

My price discrimination comment was admittedly unclear, since I tangled up two chains of reasoning. Restaurants make some amount of money from customers. Some of that money goes to the owners, some of that goes to labor. Price discrimination schemes (i.e., charging people willing to pay more, more, and people willing to pay less, less), by their nature, extract more money from customers. So restaurants with price discrimination schemes have more money total to split between labor and the owners.

Thus, we'd expect that labor makes more money at a restaurant with a price discrimination scheme than at one with flat pricing.

Culturally expected tipping is a specific price discrimination scheme, that has the cultural and legal rules to disproportionately benefit the labor. Other price discrimination schemes lack these rules, so we'd expect some of the excess value extracted from customers to be taken by the owners, rather than labor.

Thus, Labor at restaurants with tipping get paid more than labor at restaurants with other price discrimination schemes, which get paid more than labor at restaurants with flat rate pricing.

Tipping culture is not an exploitation of the servers. If you're morally opposed to (even voluntary) price discrimination, you might be able to frame it as being exploitative against the customers. But of all the ways to structure a restaurant, tipping is one of the most effective at inflating servers' pay checks, which I struggle to imagine how you can frame as exploiting said servers.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#393
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I do as well. Then I don't return to that restaurant on the basis of shenanigans.

Simply ask for it to be removed. Then, if you wish, tip the staff whatever amount you prefer. (Though at this point, any restaurant that tries sneakily adding an additional charge to my bill probably isn't getting anything).

> Simply ask for it to be removed.

No, that's too unpleasant and would put a dour note on the evening. Particularly if I'm there with a date. I'm OK with simply not returning.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#395
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd be very surprised to learn that in a lot of cases, tipping pays much better than whatever a "reasonable" hourly wage for taking an order and carrying food to a table would be. If you're serving three tables that each have $100 checks and you get at 15% tip, that's $45/hour... yes it may average out higher or lower but you're not gonna like how much eating out costs if employers are expected to pay the h…

in Switzerland we almost never tip.

How much do you pay for a standard cup of coffee?

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#396
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At restaurants at least, most people I know just default tip 20% and only adjust up or down in pretty rare circumstances. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the US or for other generations, but I recall studies supporting that people generally have a set percent they always tip.

You recall wrong. :) The evidence that tipping is inherently unjust is overwhelming: https://freakonomics.com/2008/03/the-racial-tipping-point/ The post about race but the results very obviously apply to other characteristics too. Though I very well understand that most people don't care much for evidence when it contradicts their anecdata.

Cab tipping culture is totally different and I would imagine varies significantly locally.

This is the study I was recalling: https://www.academia.edu/51293325/Restaurant_Tipping_and_Ser...

Though in looking for that I did find this other study that found racial bias: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/soin.12056

FWIW it comes off as pretty snarky to provide evidence and then pre-emptively insult the reader by assuming they won’t respond to it, or assume that disagreement will be a result of rejecting evidence in general and not having some more specific objection (e.g., cab vs restaurant tipping culture being different)

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#397
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of tips is that they are the workers', 100%. It's also a variable cost based on the willingness to pay, so it creates a form of price discrimination, where those willing to spend more, spend more, those wanting to spend less, spend less. Those two factors lead to the inescapable conclusion that tipped staff make more money . Price discrimination captures surplus value that simply is not available to…

You sound a lot more like an owner than an employee. Have you ever been relying on tips to survive? I mean someone who does not benefit from the system, I'm sure some employees benefit from it, in some cases. > Those two factors lead to the inescapable conclusion that tipped staff make more money Or have you ever... talked with someone who relied on tips to survive, in an environment where they don't benefit from it?…

IMHO, tipping is a totally irrational way to compensate employees, but at least the places I have lived in the US, it is not disputable: tipped jobs like bartenders, baristas, or restaurants server make significantly more money than untipped jobs doing similar work, like fast food workers.

Does tiping make any sense? Not to me. Does it (strangely) result in higher wages? Yes, and it's not even remotely close (unless there is some argument that being a barista is markedly more skilled than working at McDonald's, an argument I am somewhat skeptical of).

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#398
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound a lot more like an owner than an employee. Have you ever been relying on tips to survive? I mean someone who does not benefit from the system, I'm sure some employees benefit from it, in some cases. > Those two factors lead to the inescapable conclusion that tipped staff make more money Or have you ever... talked with someone who relied on tips to survive, in an environment where they don't benefit from it?…

Yes, I have both been a server, and regularly spend time with people who still work as servers. My whole point is that we did benefit from it, by making much fatter paychecks than we would otherwise. My price discrimination comment was admittedly unclear, since I tangled up two chains of reasoning. Restaurants make some amount of money from customers. Some of that money goes to the owners, some of that goes to labor.…

Doesn't it ever happen that tipped staff end up having a "shitty" shift (say hours of the day where fewer customers are here) and end up working for nothing? I have heard that, it doesn't sound like a "much fatter paycheck".

Or would you say that all tipped staff makes much fatter paychecks?

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#399

It’s quite funny to read the comments. Europeans consider their system one of culture. Americans don’t care about the culture but the time wasted. I am just sitting here thinking everyone is creating a reason why their system is better while trying to diminish another’s.

[deleted]

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#400
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but from what I've heard about the wait times at the DMV, I'm sure many would love the option to tip 20% for faster service.

Then they would be shortsighted because before no time you would need to tip 20% minimum to get even the quality of service you get now.

The cynic in me would say that's just allowing market forces to set the price by supply/demand.

But obviously, a government service should give fair and proper service to everyone.

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