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US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

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Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#161

Post by bdangubic »

silverquiet wrote: post #101
everdrive wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would need to be some articulable upside to data centers, though. Even if we agree there should be less livestock, I don't see how that has any bearing on the data centers topic.

I assume HN runs on machines in a datacenter. The servers that serve my business also reside in a datacenter. I see lots of upsides to datacenters, and they've been around long before they were controversial.

yup, we need trillion bucks in capex to run HN so no compliants from me, I love HN

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#162

Post by H4cks0r1337 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #151
tester756 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search e.g

Strongly disagree. Now when I use an internet search, the top answer is an AI guess/approximation to the result and can be completely inaccurate. I have to ignore that and move onto the traditional results and hope that they aren't A.I. slop websites. LLMs have degraded the internet and search.

True, you need extra UBO filters nowadays to block LLM results in search.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#163

Post by teeray »

Marha01 wrote: post #153
teeray wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that these comparisons do not have equal utility. Trying to compare them to AI datacenter consumption is equivalent to justifying a gambling habit on a fixed income because groceries consume plenty of dollars as well.

> The problem is that these comparisons do not have equal utility. That's just your opinion, though. I would prefer a purely vegerarian society with advanced AI that can cure cancer or discover new maths to society with meat and no AI.

Your stated preferences confirms that the listed items are not of equal utility. Clearly you value some over others.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#164

Post by gos9 »

everdrive wrote: post #69
thevinter wrote: post #13

Irrespective of how this number is calculated, whether is blue/green water etc here is some comparison data for context, since I personally think that hearing big numbers without any point of reference is pointless. Annual withdrawals (2015) - Thermoelectric power: ~48.5 trillion gal - Irrigation: ~43.1 trillion gal - Public supply: ~14.2 trillion gal - Self-supplied industrial: ~5.4 trillion gal - Aquaculture: ~2.76…

I don't hate data centers any less. That's 17B gallons wasted on something I don't care about and actively want less of.

womp womp

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#165

Post by bitcharmer »

wraptile wrote: post #56
thevinter wrote: post #13

Irrespective of how this number is calculated, whether is blue/green water etc here is some comparison data for context, since I personally think that hearing big numbers without any point of reference is pointless. Annual withdrawals (2015) - Thermoelectric power: ~48.5 trillion gal - Irrigation: ~43.1 trillion gal - Public supply: ~14.2 trillion gal - Self-supplied industrial: ~5.4 trillion gal - Aquaculture: ~2.76…

> Livestock: ~730 billion gal This is a good illustration how cursed the datacenter topic has become when people go out of their minds on computer cooling while continuing to eat meat which lets be perfectly clear - is mostly for entertainment purposes. I had someone berate me for defending datacenter water use and their last post was literally a cheese burger.

[dead]

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#166

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #157

Again, defensive HN commenters respond to facts about water consumption by citing other sources of water consumption But fail to consider that "AI" adds to those sources and raises total water consupmtion Is total water consumption important Perhaps the comparision that readers will make is not (a) existing non-"AI" water consumption versus "AI" water consumption but (b) total water consumption without the additonal…

*additional

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#167

Post by theultdev »

elil17 wrote: post #140
theultdev wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst designs evap up to 80%. New designs use closed-loop system where very none to little evaps (0-6%) depending on the system. Many designs in-between with air cooling, hybrid, etc. Still a non-issue, it's going back into the water cycle. Any water issue would be specific to the municipality, it's not a national issue, nor is it an issue specific to datacenters, it's true for anything being built in the town (g…

Okay I feel like maybe I'm missing something. In a closed loop system, nothing evaporates. If you use an air cooled design, nothing evaporates. If you use a hybrid design, you still evaporate ~80% of your cooling water - you just use less overall cooling water. The water going back to the water cycle doesn't mean it's potable. And yes, I do understand that it is a very small fraction of overall water use. I am actual…

> you just use less overall cooling water.

yeah... that's the point right?

Hybrid systems keep the primary process fluid in a closed loop, they spray water on pads to cool the coils during the hotter parts. Basically a stop gap when air cooling is not enough.

There's also close loop systems that lose none, it's just more expensive to build. They are already being deployed in areas with scarce water. Microsoft and a quite a few others already built a few.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#168

Post by preg_match »

teeray wrote: post #119
thevinter wrote: post #13

Irrespective of how this number is calculated, whether is blue/green water etc here is some comparison data for context, since I personally think that hearing big numbers without any point of reference is pointless. Annual withdrawals (2015) - Thermoelectric power: ~48.5 trillion gal - Irrigation: ~43.1 trillion gal - Public supply: ~14.2 trillion gal - Self-supplied industrial: ~5.4 trillion gal - Aquaculture: ~2.76…

The problem is that these comparisons do not have equal utility. Trying to compare them to AI datacenter consumption is equivalent to justifying a gambling habit on a fixed income because groceries consume plenty of dollars as well.

Right, but the utility goes in the other direction, not the one you’re maybe thinking.

Meat is basically optional, you don’t need meat to be healthy or happy. There are vegetarian body builders. Meat has, probably, negative value on most American’s lives, due to its contribution to heart disease.

That’s not to say meat isn’t tasty. It is. But from an objective standpoint, the value is ehhh.

Arguably, AI has much more value, and for 1/100th the water cost. Hey, that’s pretty good!

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#169

Post by preg_match »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #157

Again, defensive HN commenters respond to facts about water consumption by citing other sources of water consumption But fail to consider that "AI" adds to those sources and raises total water consupmtion Is total water consumption important Perhaps the comparision that readers will make is not (a) existing non-"AI" water consumption versus "AI" water consumption but (b) total water consumption without the additonal…

The rise in meat consumption in the past year is already double the TOTAL data center consumption of water. Look at that very carefully - the few percentage points rise in meat consumption consumes more water than all data centers in the entire country.

When it comes to the rise of total water consumption like you’re talking about, data centers are a drop in the bucket. Truly negligible.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#170

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Wild to see pro-AI datacenter people pushing the vegetarian narrative. For the last 50 years people have found the whole vegetarian narrative annoying (even to those of us who have been vegetarian). Way to pick like the worst positions. Anti-human, anti-jobs, and now (newly added) and preaching to people upset that they should be a vegetarian? For being the smartest people you are horrible at understanding people.
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