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Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#161

Post by suriyaG »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #111
suriyaG wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

> surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc. Measured how? It would indeed be a surprise if cows were equally emotional, smart, and curious as any other species. Equality on three different dimensions should essentially never happen.

cows might be more in some dimensions like emotion because cattle raise their young unlike octopus which doesn't . does that make the equation any easier to accept?

why is this a controversial idea? mammals indeed are smarter than mollusks (of which octopus is one).

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#162

Post by colordrops »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #104
suriyaG wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vegetarianism selects for openness and analytical/reflective thinking but the extra step to veganism selects for absolutism/purity I don't follow how you conclude this at all. there is nothing to indicate this is the case.

Vegetarianism, in Europe at least, requires one to be open to a different diet than what one is used to, usually going against social and cultural norms due to a personal conviction that is reached by analysis and reflection, while veganism brings that to the extreme

Everyone has different ethical frameworks. The label of "extreme" is arbitrary, not objective. I'm sure you would never rape or murder someone. Does that make you an extremist? You don't think it's OK to occasionally rape and murder people right? Vegans' ethical framework is that the murder of animals is unacceptable, and so there is no middle ground. That's not extremism, it's a different framework. To frame it as a spectrum is a misunderstanding.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#163

Post by uxcolumbo »

srean wrote: post #158
uxcolumbo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 100% taste match more important than not supporting an industry that kills Billions of animals a year and on top of that causing a huge amount of greenhouse gases and biosphere destruction? What if it's 85% taste match, wouldn't that be enough to make the jump to plant based alternatives? Male chicks for example get thrown in a wood chipper.

Inert gassing prior to the chipper shouldn't have been that expensive. That's the way capitalism works unfortunately.

And luckily we can vote with our wallet.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#164

Post by aziaziazi »

teravor wrote: post #75
blamestross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Octopi essentially consent. They are avid cannibals. In the octopi universe eating an octopi is clearly ok.

is there a case for a long lived animal being a cannibal? I would imagine that prion risk will select for aversion.

Salmons decay after spawning, then die. Their offspring eat the nutrients presents in the water, including their parents leftovers.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#166

Post by jjk166 »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #31
jjk166 wrote: post #3

Correlation does not imply causation and it's not even clear this qualifies as correlation.

what about it is not correlation, that you imply?

The default assumption is non-correlation. No firm evidence was presented demonstrating correlation. Hence "not even clear it qualifies as correlation."

This is a one time event that happened sometime after incirrates and cirrates split. This is like claiming there is a correlation between the Carrington Event of 1859 and the outbreak of the US civil war in 1860. One happened before the other. One could plausibly construct some narrative that causally links the two. But does it qualify as correlation?

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#167

Post by thelaxiankey »

jjk166 wrote: post #3

Correlation does not imply causation and it's not even clear this qualifies as correlation.

not sure I agree, they reconstituted this mutation in E coli ribosomes, using Fluc as a luminescence readout, and saw a reduction in aggregates at similar luminescence without a reduction in translation speeds.

Not really familiar with translation machinery or luciferase, but it seems pretty compelling to me.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#168

Post by thelaxiankey »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #31
jjk166 wrote: post #3

Correlation does not imply causation and it's not even clear this qualifies as correlation.

what about it is not correlation, that you imply?

maybe he/she missed the part where they reconstituted the break in e coli to show that it had the molecular effect they said it did?

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#169

Post by yieldcrv »

randomImmigrant wrote: post #149
zabzonk wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, AFAIK. I've never seen an explanation for this. Most things that reproduce successfully want to do it again - or at least their DNA does. Perhaps octopuses are simply disappointed by the experience.

Octopus senescence isn’t a choice. It’s a fully programmed part of their life cycle. There’s a bunch of hormones released by the optic gland that put them in this stage where they stop eating, stop healing, and sometimes even mutilate themselves. For the mothers, the entire time is spent cleaning and blowing water over the eggs. It’s generally accepted this behavior is the necessary pair to their high aggression and…

That explains how the mutation was promoted

But not whether other adaptations could be possible. Fix the digestive tract issue and keep the female well fed and defending the nest in a different way

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#170

Post by fragmede »

georgeecollins wrote: post #47
BatFastard wrote: post #4

I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.

Yep, they do some cognition in their arms. You also do some processing in your ears and your eyes. There is a lot of evidence that you learn to recognize certain stimulus in the neurons outside of the "brain".

Smells are a strong indicator of this, with smells able to invoke memories in a way that nothing else can.
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