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Oceans hit highest temperature on record

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Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#561
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying we could significantly cut energy use globally by limiting data center build outs? 1.5% is a //huge// amount. If it was a “drop” in your bucket, it would only hold 67 more of those drops.

No, I'm not saying that and I don't think 1.5% is particularly large. Moreover many of these projects are built out with on site 0 carbon generation so they're in some ways a net benefit.

We are already in a very bad situation regarding climate change. Do you really think we have the buffer for an increase in percentage points of energy consumption?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, if those 5% are the top-5% - everybody else gets inconvenienced by Neo-Liberal policies all the time.

The top 5%/over 60s. The overlap is almost total.

Only in one way. Most rich bastards are over 60, but absolutely no shortage of very poor old people.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#563
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we could significantly cut energy use globally by limiting data center build outs? No, we couldn't, because degrowth solutions aren't really an option.

I call degrowth "abstinence based" environmental policy in allegory to abstinence based sex education. The latter is the "we don't need condoms or birth control, just teach people not to have sex" thing, which doesn't work either. You really think you're going to convince people to become poorer? Not possible in a democracy. It'd require some kind of ecofascist totalitarian thing where you take peoples' energy and re…

> It'd require some kind of ecofascist totalitarian

That’s correct and eventually that will have to happen. There aren’t much other actual options. It’s mostly a question of how long that can be avoided. We developed a system that blocked us in the current local optimum, with no ways to take the drastic actions we need to handle global issues like climate change.

(And to be clear, an ecofascist regime would be horrible to live under)

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't accept arguments in the form of B when its a business (our pollution is just serving our customers demand, its their moral responsibility to reduce consumption), and I also don't accept it in country form. centralisation makes centralised opporunity for change. You have all the power, and also all the responsibility.

Centralisation also comes with upkeep necessary to maintain centralisation. The cost of that upkeep can severaly limit opportunity for change. If you are a dictator, staying in power is priority one, at the cost of everything else.

Don't worry China and propagandists will just lie about it.

Just like people are doing here.

In reality China is the main reason climate change got worse for the last 20 years. Ask ChatGPT who contributed to CO2 growth most in the past 20 years, Chinese industry was not just the biggest contributor to CO2 emission growth every year but most years bigger than everyone else combined. And the only real exception was 2020, when China shut down a lot faster for COVID, and a LOT more draconian, than everybody else.

Also: China is STILL increasing coal use. STILL building new coal plants. Now, I get why (same reason even Germany is considering it), but that doesn't change the facts.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

china's historical total emissions will also surpass the US's pretty soon, on account of their nearly 3x as large population combined with their per capita emissions being nearly as high. and as mentioned, theirs is likely set to grow way faster. I agree extrapolating isn't always the best way to assign historical blame (for whatever that might mean), I do think it makes sense to use when thinking about what policies…

I believe that every person has just as much right to emit pollution in 2027 as every other person in 2027. What that person emitted in 2025 has no bearing on their 2027 “allowance”. We can certainly discuss how much is an appropriate, sustainable, or defensible per-person amount, but I’m only interested in the 2027 amounts, not the increase in their amount versus a prior period, nor in allowing past large emitters t…

> I believe that every person has just as much right to emit pollution in 2027 as every other person in 2027.

Because every person has their own planet?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That BBC documentary shows or exposes very shallow thinking skills at this timestamp 6m42s: https://youtu.be/_xZCh8eDZFc?si=AHyDPgoDucsCRllS&t=402 They claim the panama canal is continuously fed by freshwater for the canal locks (which segment the canal into sections with different water levels, and which enable ships to be raised or lowered to the next water level during travel along the canal). It's 2026, why are h…

Well, the Panama canal could have been at sea level, easy to traverse without the shenanigans, and with some of the wealth it generates flowing to the Panamanians. But then the CIA killed Omar Torrijos.

> Well, the Panama canal could have been at sea level

From a technical perspective, PNE's have been proposed to excavate a sea level canal, it would take much less than 10 years.

Personally I consider a few Archimedes screws and minimal works to the locks much less invasive than PNE's,... but if your argument is that taste can not be argued I can only agree at a fundamental level...

> The collection of data was substantially completed on Route 17 in Panama one of the routes considered for nuclear excavations... The Atomic Energy Commission has recently conducted the first two of the planned series of nuclear excavation experiments designed to determine the feasibility of nuclear excavation of a sea level canal.

https://www.congress.gov/90/crecb/1968/09/05/GPO-CRECB-1968-...

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That BBC documentary shows or exposes very shallow thinking skills at this timestamp 6m42s: https://youtu.be/_xZCh8eDZFc?si=AHyDPgoDucsCRllS&t=402 They claim the panama canal is continuously fed by freshwater for the canal locks (which segment the canal into sections with different water levels, and which enable ships to be raised or lowered to the next water level during travel along the canal). It's 2026, why are h…

“It's 2026, why are humans dumping freshwater into the oceans?” They’re called rivers and they do that naturally.

As long as there is no shortage of freshwater locally, it would be fine.

They are throttling Panama Canal traffic to conserve water during El Nino drought, as posted by @evil-olive:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2026/08/21/panama-...

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't a personal risk, either, like riding a motorcycle where you're the only one who's going to get hurt when your number comes up. This is literally going to kill millions. Just my personal opinion on why this might be the case. It's perhaps that people have hard time understanding the scale of the issue. They think, few inches so what?? but the downstream effects of it are catastrophic. Even if as you are s…

The thought and consideration is worth the time, I think. However, in a certain respect this is why government is supposed to exist: we never would have gone to the moon. Or built the highway system. Or train tracks. Or a whole lot of big things which don’t immediately seem to have a benefit. It takes a large body with power and money to enact regulations and movement and take on big projects which would obviously be…

> However, in a certain respect this is why government is supposed to exist: we never would have gone to the moon. Or built the highway system. Or train tracks. Or a whole lot of big things which don’t immediately seem to have a benefit.

> (...) I think your idea is absolutely worth personal consideration, but at the same time my feeling is the answer is somewhat obvious on a societal scale. But we’ve lost all trust in government, and there is no political will left to get almost anything done in North America

I agree with you on both these points as well and I would like to add a few thoughts that I have onto it: The trust itself within the government is eroding. I feel like trust within institutions is a highly large factor but we have come to such a wide lack of trust that we can't even communicate on basic matters let alone come to agreements at times.

I have also written an comment about it just a little under a week ago which feels relevant and talks about the trust within institutions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49351114

One paragraph from that comment which I had written which I would like to say again is this:

"Trust works in a society when incentives are aligned with trust ie. you trust the society, the society trusts you back and you do the work with these principles and you are rewarded. Even this belief is something that you must trust that the society is fair. This trust creates your beliefs which sets your base-line incentives.

(Note: I feel as if in this example, society/government are interchangable and perhaps government is part of the larger societal structure in it, I feel like the fundamental issue is of trust/incentives within society. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about it as well)

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#569
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in 50 years we'll defo have technology to remove that CO2.

We will not. Carbon capture is a joke. It does not work anywhere near the scale it's needed. We would need many times more capture facilities than we currently have power plants. And to run them we would need many times more power plants, not to mention all the construction emissions etc. Carbon capture is completely infeasible. It's already too late anyway, our civilization is pretty much doomed barring some miracle…

We should take a glance at what all the tech we take for granted today looked like in 1976.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#570
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that every person has just as much right to emit pollution in 2027 as every other person in 2027. What that person emitted in 2025 has no bearing on their 2027 “allowance”. We can certainly discuss how much is an appropriate, sustainable, or defensible per-person amount, but I’m only interested in the 2027 amounts, not the increase in their amount versus a prior period, nor in allowing past large emitters t…

> I believe that every person has just as much right to emit pollution in 2027 as every other person in 2027. Because every person has their own planet?

No. Everyone has an equal right as each other precisely because we all share the same planet!

It would seem far more weird to me to argue the opposite: “These people have the right to emit 2x or 10x as much as these other people!” (Or equivalently, “these people are only allowed to emit 10% or 50% of what these other people are…”)

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