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One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

cnn.com

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Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#171

Post by jmclnx »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #145
EdwardDiego wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spotted the same thing, and there's never a source given. Allegedly his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather (or 15th great-grandfather for short) was totally Han, the son of the scourge of the Xiongnu - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Guang A timely reminder that, damn, China is olllldddd.

> A timely reminder that, damn, China is olllldddd. China proper starts about 1000 BC, so China is quite a bit younger than Europe. (Whatever "Europe" is.)

We need to define "older". All areas are old, but it is history that can make one area seem old. Of course I am ignoring Africa, the oldest of all in Human History.

I think this thread is referring to record keeping. In Europe and especially in the mid-east, when an area was conquered, seems the trend was to destroy written records.

I think when that happened in China, a lot written records survived, so it has the appearance of being older.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#172

Post by Tuna-Fish »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #146
dualvariable wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is literally a russian propaganda method. Spread flat earth theories, get influencers to question if sunscreen is actually harmful, etc. Spread enough contradictory information so that gradually, people don't have any idea what to believe, and then they become susceptible to political misinformation, or just become completely politically disengaged. It is not a sign of a healthy society at all, it is a disease…

[flagged]

People have been pointing out that various european fringe groups got funded by Russia for a long time. Like, they have actually been caught at it. I always thought it was a weird theory, why would they even bother?

That was until the morning after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Because that morning, a huge proportion of the most popular european conspiracy, anti-vaxxer and alt-right twitter accounts started pushing the same 5 kremlin talking points. It was way too crudely done to be organic, they had clearly received their marching orders.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#173

Post by cosmicgadget »

thataccount wrote: post #170
cosmicgadget wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuh uh is a fact, it doesn't require a conversation. This DOJ would definitely be prosecuting him, that isn't saying very much.

You are right about things not requiring a conversation--with you.

Zing.

"My symptoms were like a flu, this invalidates the mortality rate (which are fake anyway!) and hospital census (also fake!). Joe Rogan said we just needed to boof livestock dewormer and look at him, still alive. QED."

A conversation as old as time.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#174

Post by stvltvs »

Apocryphon wrote: post #52
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #29

There are primary sources. There are archeological sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianling_Mausoleum There are also histories written just after the Tang Dynasty had fallen. It was considered good form for a new dynasty to write a historical review of the previous one, and there are two retrospectives on Tang, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Book_of_Tang And there is ironclad evidence from foreign sourc…

Every ancient empire did this with their primordial beginnings, from Romulus and Remus to Izanagi and Izanami.

Hengist and Horsa

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#175

Post by IAmBroom »

raincole wrote: post #81
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #29

There are primary sources. There are archeological sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianling_Mausoleum There are also histories written just after the Tang Dynasty had fallen. It was considered good form for a new dynasty to write a historical review of the previous one, and there are two retrospectives on Tang, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Book_of_Tang And there is ironclad evidence from foreign sourc…

> What is taken quite seriously is the notion that China's first dynasty -- the Xia Dynasty -- never existed There are some nuances about this. We know that there are multiple developed cities (and likely monarchies, given there are palace-like ruins) around or before Xia era. It's just that we don't know which one is so-called Xia Dynasty . But it doesn't meant that there were only small tribes and suddenly Shang ca…

It doesn't mean anything.

There were robber barons in early Norman England. It's just that we don't know which one is so-called Robin Hood... when in reality it's most likely just a pop myth.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#176

Post by IAmBroom »

geokon wrote: post #106
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thus for a very long time, and even today to some extent, the Japanese (or their cultural theorists at any rate!) have viewed themselves as the inheritors of "true" Ancient Chinese culture -- unsullied by Mongol/Manchu/Communist influence. There's some truth to this. The Japanese preserved certain Tang Dynasty customs which were lost to China, and they have some of the best collections of Tang-era artifacts. This…

In my experience the Chinese very much think this as well. Though it can be framed in a more derogatory way as "derivative" or "they just copied us" I'd argue its difficult to find major aspects of Japanese culture that don't trace back to ancient China (maybe the language, eating raw food and sumo)

Sushi is exceedingly modern. It's "derived" from a fish preservation method... which relies on salting and fermenting, so not really "raw" (more like sauerkraut than shredded cabbage).

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#177

Post by [deleted] »

guyzero wrote: post #33
graemep wrote: post #11

Its a Chinese equivalent of the phantom time theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_conspiracy_theory Its just as silly as phantom time and covers almost exactly the same period. The motive is possibly racist which makes it more sinister.

Back in the early 2000's, well before most social media sites existed, I had a coworker who shared with me a number of questionable theories, one of which was basically this. He also believed very passionately that plate tectonics was wrong. Unfortunately social media didn't invent brain worms.

[deleted]

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#178

Post by thataccount »

cosmicgadget wrote: post #173
thataccount wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right about things not requiring a conversation--with you.

Zing. "My symptoms were like a flu, this invalidates the mortality rate (which are fake anyway!) and hospital census (also fake!). Joe Rogan said we just needed to boof livestock dewormer and look at him, still alive. QED." A conversation as old as time.

I am talking about the Q posts. You are talking about everything else. So, whatever conversation it is you are having, it isn't with me. Maybe take some meds.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#179

Post by kelipso »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #172
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

People have been pointing out that various european fringe groups got funded by Russia for a long time. Like, they have actually been caught at it. I always thought it was a weird theory, why would they even bother? That was until the morning after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Because that morning, a huge proportion of the most popular european conspiracy, anti-vaxxer and alt-right twitter accounts s…

“Talking points” for one man is simply the truth for another man. When you look at everything through a conspiracy lens, eventually the truth can become “talking points” and you end up in an island of delusion (I hope everyone still remembers the “vibecession” we had…, the inflation is not real actually, etc etc).

We seriously need to evaluate this “talking points” accusation lol. Propaganda accusations in general, they’re mindless and kills actual discussion.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#180

Post by Tuna-Fish »

kelipso wrote: post #179
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been pointing out that various european fringe groups got funded by Russia for a long time. Like, they have actually been caught at it. I always thought it was a weird theory, why would they even bother? That was until the morning after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Because that morning, a huge proportion of the most popular european conspiracy, anti-vaxxer and alt-right twitter accounts s…

“Talking points” for one man is simply the truth for another man. When you look at everything through a conspiracy lens, eventually the truth can become “talking points” and you end up in an island of delusion (I hope everyone still remembers the “vibecession” we had…, the inflation is not real actually, etc etc). We seriously need to evaluate this “talking points” accusation lol. Propaganda accusations in general, t…

No I mean literally a specific set of iirc 5 points, that none of them had ever used before, that they all did with very little variation, at the same time, one morning. They didn't all just independently end up with the same subjects they needed to talk about at the same time.

It made lots of people who had previously believed in their bullshit wake up and take notice.

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