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New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

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Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#111
post #80

Here's me trying to justify this when I can run frontier models in the cloud for less than the monthly finance charge for this beast.

If you like to experiment with training / finetuning / etc on LLMs, these are actually incredibly ‘cheap’. 1.2TB/s memory bandwidth unlocks a lot with 256GB unified, and agentic AI is pretty good at optimising performance. For comparison, to get 256GB with NVIDIA, you’re looking at a DIY workstation build (need pcie lanes), and like $70k? The spark’s ~250gb/s bandwidth doesn’t really count here.

Neither is the right alternative to compare to. You aren’t going to hit 100% utilization (if you are, ignore me, this doesn’t some to you, and write a blogpost for me to read and share).

The comparison should be against renting in the cloud for the duration of your task for training and research or using pay-per-api-call providers for general inference instead of buying your own hardware (and paying the electricity and cooling bills on top), because let’s face it, the models you want to use are probably the same ones available on inference providers (but, yes, some are more trustworthy than others).

Speaking as someone that does ML/AI research, you are essentially paying a huge premium for being able to just run your Python script at any time without setting up a deployment script and harness to run the job remotely, while your hardware sits essentially idle the rest of the time.

The only way to make the math work is if you rent your hardware in the background for inference while you’re not using it in anger, but despite all the startups and promises that has never become as streamlined as mining bitcoins or shitcoins used to be and they don’t pay out as much as they say they would. Renting your hardware for training is another option but doing that is a lot more involved, options are fewer and farther in between, you won’t get as much utilization out of it, and doesn’t let you feasibly abort running tasks at a moment’s notice.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been holding out, because I think my next purchase will be a Studio with an Ultra Chip in it. I'm wanting it to be a "forever" server, so I'm holding out while I can.

Then you'll always be waiting, there's always something new the industry tries to tempt you with.

I just wait for a cycle or two where the leaps and bounds are more like hops and steps. So if the M7 Ultra improves inference by 2x over the M5, but the M9 Ultra only improves by 1.2x over the M7, that's my signal to buy. Unfortunately they haven't slowed down yet.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#113
post #91
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having replaced my MacBook with a Mac Mini, I would reconsider. The MacBook is just such a _complete_ package. Great speakers, great keyboard, fantastic screen, the fingerprint sensor thingy.. Takes a lot of gear to match that

If your computer never leaves your desk, the iMac is pretty competitive with those features. Even comes with a TouchID keyboard.

I’ve had iMacs for almost 20 years. My last one was indeed my last. Without target display mode (use the Mac as a monitor), I’m ditching a perfectly good monitor. I was going to buy a Mac Studio and a good monitor to replace the iMac until the spouse reminded me that we are now retired and will spend time in a camper. So a MBP for me (and BenQ’s Mac-specific monitor), but others might do well to consider a Mac Mini/Studio.

iMacs are great for a lot of use cases, but my image of the typical HN user would prefer to keep the monitor separate.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#114
post #80

Here's me trying to justify this when I can run frontier models in the cloud for less than the monthly finance charge for this beast.

If you like to experiment with training / finetuning / etc on LLMs, these are actually incredibly ‘cheap’. 1.2TB/s memory bandwidth unlocks a lot with 256GB unified, and agentic AI is pretty good at optimising performance. For comparison, to get 256GB with NVIDIA, you’re looking at a DIY workstation build (need pcie lanes), and like $70k? The spark’s ~250gb/s bandwidth doesn’t really count here.

Yeah not really lol.

Only reason to buy this if you want to own your compute.

Experimentation and inference are all going to be cheaper on the cloud

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not exactly "future proof" Computers are never "future proof".

> Computers are never "future proof". Upgradeable components however could go a loooong stretch towards that goal. It can't be that hard to follow a common form factor for at least the housing across two or three generations to allow a reuse of everything but the main PCB.

The main PCB is pretty much everything that has value. The rest is a heatsink, case and PSU.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#116
post #12

10 grand for 256GB memory. Likely double that for 512GB, but won't be available or finalized until October. Thunderbolt 5 is highest bandwidth external IO available at 120Gb/s. 1.2TB/s claimed max internal memory bandwidth. Not exactly "future proof" for >1T parameter models but good for targeting specific lower-parameter models, or if you can rely on pipeline parallelism and run a cluster.

> Not exactly "future proof" Computers are never "future proof".

About 20 years ago my dad bought me a $5k computer, it was future proof for about "5 years" before we had to upgrade its internal parts (more memory, new graphics card).

It was future proof but not really because it struggled a lot in its final years.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#117

Boy, oh boy Apple is the new shovel seller during AI gold rush. Most people at Apple have already realized that their processors are already too powerful for regular users - heck, as a developer my M2 Pro with 32 GB RAM is more than enough for me. Regular users don’t care about local AI either. So, they will probably extract as much money as possible during AI gold rush, but then we will most likely see Apple a. Maki…

I dunno, Apple's been throwing many bones to their customers who use their Macs for AI stuff; like Apple working with, and signing TinyGPU's NVIDIA eGPU drivers.

Plus introducing features like RDMA over thunderbolt, which is critical for distributed inference/training/etc. On the software side, Apple is investing heaps.

It's still ridiculous they don't support expandable NVMes, but the memory being soldered makes sense, you need it for 1.2TB/s bandwidth.

They are still selling high-margin hardware. Apple loves selling high-margin hardware.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#118
post #3

Bizarre there isn’t a 1TB RAM option hidden away for the excessively frivolous or VC funded.

It's more bizarre that Apple got caught with pants down. Focused on CPUs and ignored RAM. Seems like miscalculation. If they had their own fab for RAM, they could completely corner the market today.

They have no fab for CPUs, they are manufactured by Samsung and TSMC. The bottleneck is in manufacturing RAM not CPUs so there is nothing Apple can do here.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#119

It seems super reasonably priced to me. It's only twice as expensive as my first Mac which only had 128K of memory.

Base models are okay-ish.

But +4000$ for an additional 128GB of ram is simply milking the customers, as they know they will have many of them.

Re: New Mac Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultra

#120

Due to pricing insanity (not that Apple prices weren’t insane before the ram/ssd shortages) I’m not in the market but I do wonder if my next computer should be a Mac Studio instead of a MBP that lives its life docked. Might be better to just run a Studio and Neo for the very few times I actually need remote capabilities.

I've been thinking about this a fair bit recently. We make a lot of price/performance compromises for having an attached screen and keyboard on our computer. That was what got me started. Then I remembered the days of having to go to a special corner of the house to use a computer, vs now when I have a computer with me all the time. In my bag, on the sofa, on the train. Hell, I'm writing this on the work MBP while wa…

There is a definite mental aspect for most WFH folks to having a space that is dedicated to work. I'm not unique in saying this, but the way I put it is "If you work from anywhere in your house, then you're always at work."

And that, from mental load standpoint, is not healthy for most folks.

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