Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes • Hacker News Board

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#41

Post by dangrossman » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:39 PM UTC

gtaylor wrote: post #37

dharbin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_this_. And why drop support for FF 3.6 too? Is there a technical reason to drop support for older browsers or is it idealism?

There's a great reason. Browsers are advancing, and it makes sense to gradually take advantage of features as most of the mainstream browsers start supporting them. The hacks required to make older versions behave tend to pile up with time, increasing complexity and maintenance overhead for the developers. There gets to be a point where the complexity and overhead is no longer worthwhile to appease a very slim demogr…

This 'very slim demographic' is more than 1 in 20 people on the web still, and catering to them has typically required very little (maybe a few extra lines of CSS; otherwise, modern websites work fine on IE7, just without the nice rounded corners and such). I'll be using Bootstrap 2.x until that statistic drops much lower.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#42

Post by indiecore » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:40 PM UTC

josscrowcroft wrote: post #23

dharbin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_this_. And why drop support for FF 3.6 too? Is there a technical reason to drop support for older browsers or is it idealism?

When was the last time anybody used FF 3.6? Serious question.

Yeah there's even less reason to use old versions of FF than there is to use old versions of IE.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#43

Post by Griever » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:40 PM UTC

jpdevereaux wrote: post #36

Griever wrote: post #31

Exciting! I really hope they do end up going with multiple modal widths in 3.1, as I've had to do this myself on more than a few occasions. On a side note, I'm curious as to why they decided to refactor their variable names to include dashes instead of just sticking with camel casing. Personally, I find camel casing to be much more readable.

For a while the dash-ing annoyed me until I realized that it makes selecting/changing part of a variable name easier (at least in vim). Can't imagine that's the reasoning behind it but it does work out well.

Thanks, that's good to know.

I suppose it doesn't make _too_ much of a difference considering I prefer to use hyphens in my css classes anyway, but this just seemed like a somewhat useless change that will end up breaking a lot of customization's..

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#44

Post by hackerboos » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:41 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #22

hackerboos wrote: post #11

How about dropping support for LESS and using SASS instead?

You mean, "how about re-engineering the entire project for little benefit"? LESS vs SASS is one of the more infuriating "this vs that" argument circling the web right now, because everyone is so inexplicably vocal and passionate about it. Looks like there is already a SASS port: https://github.com/thomas-mcdonald/bootstrap-sass

The SASS ports tend to lag behind the original or don't leverage the full potential of SASS/Compass.

I personally think SASS has won out over LESS since the introduction of SCSS and if Bootstrap dropped support LESS would gradually fade away.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#45

Post by dangrossman » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:42 PM UTC

josscrowcroft wrote: post #23

dharbin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_this_. And why drop support for FF 3.6 too? Is there a technical reason to drop support for older browsers or is it idealism?

When was the last time anybody used FF 3.6? Serious question.

It's the 16th most popular user agent seen across the ~60,000 websites tracked by W3Counter. IE7 is the 7th. Dropping support for both will affect 1 in 20 visitors of the 'average' website (your particular audience may vary).

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#46

Post by mctx » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:49 PM UTC

excid3 wrote: post #33

bluetidepro wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why you couldn't. It's pretty easy to find media queries in the CSS, because of the unique styling they have in the CSS file.

Right, but if I want to disable it right now, I simply remove the include and updates to Bootstrap don't require me to do any extra work. If it's not easy to remove, I'm guessing that I can just set the large format to something ridiculously high for the minimum width.

May I ask why you'd like to? I've invested in a large monitor to avoid being stuck with thin column layouts.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#47

Post by stdbrouw » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

hackerboos wrote: post #44

untog wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, "how about re-engineering the entire project for little benefit"? LESS vs SASS is one of the more infuriating "this vs that" argument circling the web right now, because everyone is so inexplicably vocal and passionate about it. Looks like there is already a SASS port: https://github.com/thomas-mcdonald/bootstrap-sass

The SASS ports tend to lag behind the original or don't leverage the full potential of SASS/Compass. I personally think SASS has won out over LESS since the introduction of SCSS and if Bootstrap dropped support LESS would gradually fade away.

I personally think no CSS preprocessor has won out over any other.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#48

Post by graue » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

josscrowcroft wrote: post #23

dharbin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_this_. And why drop support for FF 3.6 too? Is there a technical reason to drop support for older browsers or is it idealism?

When was the last time anybody used FF 3.6? Serious question.

I was using it this spring (2012) because I had a netbook running Ubuntu 9.04 (9.10 had failed to work properly). But after Google Docs began refusing to let me edit, I finally gave in and upgraded the netbook to 12.04, which has an up-to-date Firefox.

Still, I don't doubt that there are lots of public computers (in libraries, for example) running Firefox 3.6 today. I've seen even older.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#49

Post by vyrotek » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 4:54 PM UTC

josscrowcroft wrote: post #23

dharbin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_this_. And why drop support for FF 3.6 too? Is there a technical reason to drop support for older browsers or is it idealism?

When was the last time anybody used FF 3.6? Serious question.

I know of a call center here in the US with 300 stations that have XP and FireFox 3.5 and they won't be upgrading anytime soon.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#50

Post by excid3 » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 5:01 PM UTC

mctx wrote: post #46

excid3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but if I want to disable it right now, I simply remove the include and updates to Bootstrap don't require me to do any extra work. If it's not easy to remove, I'm guessing that I can just set the large format to something ridiculously high for the minimum width.

May I ask why you'd like to? I've invested in a large monitor to avoid being stuck with thin column layouts.

Just that the client didn't want the two different sizes for desktop. Nothing in particular, just didn't have time to invest into that and it wasn't really providing that much benefit for the site we were working on.