141–150 of 183 posts
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WhatsApp is still based on XMPP unless things have changed a lot recently.
What about their signal integration? https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp-complete/
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I was generally "Matrix feels right" but I read through [0] and other discussions and I think that Matrix's E2E focus + way of duplicating everything just means that it suffers a lot of scalability issues that "plain old Jabber" won't have. now Jabber has client issues, but stuff like Monal "basically work" for text + images + chat rooms. I'm excited for Fluux. You can of course set up one of the random web clients.…
> notifications is a solved problem. Eh, last time I tried I still got leftover notifications for messages I had long read and even replied to on a different client hanging around on my other devices. (To be fair, Matrix does the same thing too, but only in roughly 50% of all cases, which is much more infuriating than something I can at least understand as a fundamental protocol limitation and not a weird implementat…
I suppose here you're saying "I should be able to do this without providers having to do work"? Like you show up with lxgr@foo.com to bar.com and create an account, and everything kinda fits into place (modulo you having to set up some DNS?)
It is already possible of course to have XMPP server at domain A handle things for domain B as well. But it is cool how ATProto seems to really bake in the concept of "all domains are welcome".
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I mean for alternative servers, 10% of people use Continuwuity and it looks pretty spec-complete [0] and more than enough to be useful. [0]: https://forgejo.ellis.link/continuwuation/continuwuity/issue...
Last I checked (couple years ago?) it was ill-advised to use anything but Synapse, because: - you would be at the mercy of very real and frequent federation problems (Matrix being so implementation-dependent and centred around Synapse ; like, the json serialization format is better described as "whatever order and structure python's stdlib is doing"¹) - there is no non-destructive way back to another server (the open…
2) Why would open federation reject you? Given you don't throw away your private key
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Yeah yeah yeah. I’ve heard this for 8 years. And yet, everyone can talk a great game, no one can build a mobile client that is anywhere near the quality of any other chat platform. And here I am, hosting a Matrix server for my family for 6 years now, with no issues and an amazing experience, from the backend to the huge variety of mobile clients, a mature Rust sdk that I can hook bots into with ease, etc.
Matrix doesn't even support server-to-client message pushing, only polling. Which means, if you want your phone to receive a message while your client is in the background, you have to use a non-Matrix protocol to receive those. This protocol is XMPP in 99% of the time, both Apple and Google use XMPP to connect the phones to their push notification service. On Android, some Matrix clients offer the option to use non-…
(aside long polling which I cannot comment) why is this a even an issue?
Centralized push services (may it be FCM or unified push) are at this point well established.
As a user using a specific messenger app as a push service doesn't gain me anything, it only makes it more difficult to switch messenger app if i choose to use it and mostly use an additional push service (hurting battery life), because most receive push notifications via Google anyway.
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> NATO, police forces and intelligence agencies use it Is there anywhere to read more about this?
The existence of "XEP-0365: Server to Server communication over STANAG 5066 ARQ" suggests military usage. Isode advertises XMPP as "The NATO Standard for instant messaging" ( https://www.isode.com/secure-xmpp/ ) and it is one of their core offerings. I remember seeing NATO command posts using IRC long ago - makes sense because it is ultra light, and therefore usable on extremely low bitrate degraded links... XMPP see…
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XMPP leans heavily on capability negotiation and service discovery which makes it straightforward to degrade gracefully when feature mismatches occur. Matrix is significantly lacking in this regard.
Unfortunately, some of the features that can degrade are things like "the chat is actually secure."
Id rather someone be able to reach out to me with a note the chat is insecure, rather than be unreachable at all
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I found snikket to be pretty much perfect for the use case I wanted, which was something locally-hosted I could drop in a VM so I had a channel for talking to bots that didn't need API keys for third party services. The only downsides I've experienced are: 1. Images and accompanying text get separated, which turn-based bots get confused by. I seem to recall there's a standard for this but it's not implemented. 2. XMP…
> XMPP support isn't common in claw-type agents so I've had to patch it in. I found this pretty baffling/sad. Why do these agent harnesses have messaging plug-ins for the most obscure messaging platforms but not XMPP? It seems like a no-brainer! People would apparently rather pay for a second number/SIM/phone dedicated to Openclaw on WhatsApp and suffer periodic outages due to Meta actively discouraging automation us…
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At 11 years old, XMPP had 0 usable clients (I was there and tried them). That's one less than Matrix.
XMPP at 11 years old would place us in the year 2010. Requirements were different in those times. Psi on my desktop and Bombus (a J2ME client) on my Nokia E71 worked great. The transition from that into the mobile-first age was rough though. The article says that too. It only improved in 2014-2015.
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> mess of what server/client supports If you allow for independent implementations of the protocol this will always happen. Also, inventing another non-standard protocol creates even more incompatibility between clients and servers.
IRC and email worked out pretty well I think.
XMPP is the pinnacle of chat that just works. And it is champion by default, which is kind of the point here. All other popular systems and servers went defunct; it will never be taken over by BigCo and left to rot. Here's to 25 more years!
> XMPP is the pinnacle of chat that just works My limited experience is that it's not the case. When I tried to join a few rooms I got insulted because my client apparently used extensions that weren't supported by some XMPP enthusiasts' clients, so my client sucked and I had to change it and use an ugly one instead. I'd rather get a feature-complete protocol than an extensible one, so that at least everyone can spea…