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Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

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Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#701

Post by bluGill »

taneq wrote: post #647
rock_artist wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s still one mystery for me. I’m now at the iPhone 16. The performance of those chips with 8GB in non throttled environment (Neo..) can run as a fully performant macOS. Yet, as a phone I don’t feel upgraded performance since my SE 1st gen days. Sometimes I get stuttering, basic browsing can get the device pretty warm, sometime camera lags to launch. My usage profile didn’t change much over the years. So I can on…

Devs pay attention to, and optimise, anything that is painfully slow in their test environment. That’s why we need to test stuff on slow hardware.

However a dev on fast hardware can still run profiles, and the fast hardware decreases the change/build/test cycle by more than enough to make it worthwhile.

The only use of a slow machine is it gives a point where you can say more optimization isn't worth it. Everything else I can do better on a fast machine than a slow machine.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#703

Post by sofixa »

d5lt5 wrote: post #678
sofixa wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A large number of Ukrainians moved to Russia Citation very much needed.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis 2. https://data.unhcr.org/en/documents/download/117204 - 1.2 million.

> *As of mid-June 2023 an estimated 1.2 million Ukrainians were recorded in the Russian Federation under different legal forms of stay (other than refugee or temporary asylum status)

This means people that have Ukrainian citizenship, which includes lots of families that were on both sides of the border. It does not mean people who were residents of Ukraine before the war, and decided to move to Russia. It does include the kidnapped children, and surviving people in occupied cities.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#704

Post by sofixa »

d5lt5 wrote: post #672
sofixa wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> _China doesn't need to invade Taiwan_ Russia didn't need to invade Ukraine either. But nonetheless China is clearly preparing itself to be ready to be able to invade, with aircraft carriers, amphibious assault ships, dual purpose roll-on/roll-off carriers. It doesn't mean it will , but that it wants to be able to. So basically it will depend on a single dictator's whim if they do or don't. > Establish a total naval…

> Russia didn't need to invade Ukraine either. Arguable, they had to after the 2008 Buharest NATO summit and Ukraine's militarization going forward, and eradication of Russian language and Russian-speaking population in the east. > Which would be considered an act of war, so it's the same scenario again. China considers Taiwan their territory, who is there to protect Taiwan? US? >20% is more than the % of people in t…

> Arguable, they had to after the 2008 Buharest NATO summit

How dare the countries threatened by Russia, who had seen how Russia invaded and brutalised multiple countries - Moldova, Checnya, Georgia twice - seek protection from Russia. This totally excuses Russia invading and brutalising again, of course.

> Ukraine's militarization going forward

The country was literally invaded (Crimea and Donbass), what the hell did you or the idiots in the Kremlin expect? That it will just sit and allow Russia to take more of its territory unopposed? That it will become a pliant vassal state again?

> eradication of Russian language and Russian-speaking population in the east

Such eradication that the country elected a Russian speaker to be president, on a platform of reconciliation with Russia. So much so, that his opposition called him a Russian puppet. That guy is Zelenskyy.

I'm sorry, but you're either out of your mind, or have been completely brainwashed. Russia chose to invade multiple of its neighbours, and did unspeakable atrocities every time. The only one to fault for all of this, and everyone around them seeking protection from this, is them. This imperialist nonsense brutality does not belong in the 21st century, and neither does its apologia. And no, I don't care about the whataboutism you're preparing to "defend" these actions with, it's beyond irrelevant. It's what the Russian state has been about since it came into being out of the ruins of the USSR. We should have never treated them as anything else.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#705

Post by CyberDildonics »

locknitpicker wrote: post #627
ColdStream wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age old problem of mobile chips have brilliant performance for about 15 seconds until they thermal throttle. If you are just using apps, 15 seconds is more than enough to launch and setup an app, for anything more it will be down graded a little. Still dang impressive but the form factor becomes the limiting factor.

> The age old problem of mobile chips have brilliant performance for about 15 seconds until they thermal throttle. I think this is a trait of all chips. As a general rule of thumb, both desktop chips and graphics cards come with a huge and noisy fan. Demand for aftermarket solutions is so great that it spawned quite a few specialized companies. How many high-end laptops ship with at least one fan?

Any chip that isn't cooled is going to heat up and throttle or just shut off in seconds. The point is that mobile devices have a peak performance that you don't really get because you can't cool them enough.

Desktops can have plenty of cooling so you actually get the real speed of whatever you are using.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#706

Post by tristor »

egeozcan wrote: post #637
rock_artist wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s still one mystery for me. I’m now at the iPhone 16. The performance of those chips with 8GB in non throttled environment (Neo..) can run as a fully performant macOS. Yet, as a phone I don’t feel upgraded performance since my SE 1st gen days. Sometimes I get stuttering, basic browsing can get the device pretty warm, sometime camera lags to launch. My usage profile didn’t change much over the years. So I can on…

That summarizes my whole computer use. I used to believe it was my tolerance, but then I took out a good old YP-G70CB (Samsung Galaxy S WiFi 5.0) from a drawer and everything felt much snappier than my S25. The only computer that's the exception is my macbook m4. This thing was and still is ridiculously snappy.

It's a few different things. I've gone down a hardcore rabbit hole on this because I also find this exceptionally annoying. I now sometimes experience lag when typing into a terminal, where I am typing faster than characters appear, which is something that didn't even happen in the early 1990s on significantly less capable hardware.

A very big portion of this is just Wirth's Law in motion. Software is getting worse rapidly, and AI is accelerating the decline in software quality, where performance is an aspect of quality.

But the other part of this is the latency vs throughput tradeoff. More and more of our systems are optimized for throughput, or worse are optimized for throughput in ways which causes significant experience degradation if you are unable to meet the throughput demands. There is a natural tension between throughput and latency, and we are seeing this play out across every aspect of both hardware and software system design. As a simple example, nothing you do to USB4 will ever match the latency of PS/2 connection for an input device, but a PS/2 port delivers around 7-12 kiloBITS/second of throughput vs USB4 delivering up to 120Gbps and a /minimum/ of 20 gigabits/second of throughput. PS/2 uses blocking direct hardware interrupts for input devices, vs asynchronous polling on USB. This architectural difference will never allow for USB to match PS/2 latency, regardless how "fast" USB gets.

This tradeoff is leaning more and more towards throughput everywhere you look. Just today, the new M5 Ultra is announced w/ 1.2TBs/ of memory bandwidth. The M5 Max had 14ns of memory latency while high-performance DDR4/DDR5 typically achieves 8-9ns of latency. That's 36% more latency (conservatively), but nearly 10x the throughput. When you stack up small changes like this at every layer of the system, including in our overreliance on micro services and networked data I/O vs local data in applications, and it adds up. There are so many places in modern software where there is some network connection required for something that could have been achieved without that connection, and waiting on that connection consumes a huge amount of wait time relative to the total time for the operation, and we all feel it.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#707

Post by mr_toad »

nerdsniper wrote: post #6

M5 (iPad) AnTuTu: 3.5 million XRing O3 AnTuTu: 5.5 million --- M5 iPad Geekbench Single-Core: 3,556 M5 Max Geekbench Single-Core: 4,300 XRing O3 Geekbench Single-Core: 3,945 --- M5 iPad Geekbench Multi-Core: 15,285 M5 Max Geekbench Multi-Core: 29,200 XRing O3 Geekbench Multi-Core: 15,221

And less than a day later Apple announced the M6. The timing has to be a coincidence, but it is quite amusing.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#709

Post by HenriTEL »

egeozcan wrote: post #637
rock_artist wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s still one mystery for me. I’m now at the iPhone 16. The performance of those chips with 8GB in non throttled environment (Neo..) can run as a fully performant macOS. Yet, as a phone I don’t feel upgraded performance since my SE 1st gen days. Sometimes I get stuttering, basic browsing can get the device pretty warm, sometime camera lags to launch. My usage profile didn’t change much over the years. So I can on…

That summarizes my whole computer use. I used to believe it was my tolerance, but then I took out a good old YP-G70CB (Samsung Galaxy S WiFi 5.0) from a drawer and everything felt much snappier than my S25. The only computer that's the exception is my macbook m4. This thing was and still is ridiculously snappy.

Did you try to disable animations? There's an option in the developers settings.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#710

Post by smallmancontrov »

hibikir wrote: post #487
faitswulff wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China actually penalizes, imprisons, and even executes its billionaires, so that’s different.

The right way to read this isn't that all billionaires can face consquenecs, but that the line that makes sure you don't face consequences is quite a bit different than being a billionaire. You can still have a power center, and impunity, as long as you make sure your misbehavior doesn't embarrass the people with the actual power. Those are smart enough to not do the things they shouldn't in a way that can be made pu…

A few years ago I would have comfortably agreed that the US was better at impartial justice and justice for all. That has changed. Now it's a game of making lists of sins and comparing them -- which has enough degrees of freedom that everyone is just going to come to whichever result they were aiming for.
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