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How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

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Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#121
post #31

Credit cards also transfer wealth from people who pay interest to people who don’t. It’s a silly system, where everyone has to invest their time (optimizing for rewards, avoiding interest) in an ultimately negative sum game. I hate it so much.

I'm 46. I've never had a credit card. I have a bank account and a debit card. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it.

You can just opt out of using credit cards.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#122
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As such, I just pay with credit and have never understood this argument. Because the merchant pass the higher processing cost to all customers.

And often the credit card companies try to enforce this by writing wording into their contracts that try to stop merchants offering different prices for different payment methods.

This is true. In fact, if you come across a merchant that accepts credit with a minimum purchase amount or tacks an extra fee, you can take the receipt and call the terminal owner (visa/MasterCard) and report it. The receipt has a terminal ID, and it turns out the likes of Visa get really pissed if merchants do that.

I know this because I used to work on a US military base. There was a sole merchant on a particular installation that was doing this, but it was extreme. They'd force you to buy over 10 USD if you wanted to use a card, and it was the only place to grab a snack. One day there terminal was shut down, and for a period they only went to cash payments. Once they took credit again they removed the minimum purchase. Turns out somebody got pissed, and reported them.

Regarding the article, the ~390 USR sounds about right to me. I only use a credit card, pay it completely off at the end of the month. I've never once paid interest since in the 8 years I have used this card. Every few years I buy a plan ticket with the rewards.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#123
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more specific, this is a US credit card topic. Debit card fees are capped in the US, yet I’ve never received a discount from a merchant for paying with debit instead of credit. As such, I just pay with credit and have never understood this argument.

Until 2013, visa and Mastercard forbade merchants from charging more for credit card payments if they accept their credit cards.

And it wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts that they changed - they finally lost enough big court cases over it, it was to avoid heavy handed legislation.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#125

I always wondered why people in America would ever pay by cash or credit card - unless they are laundering that cash. Otherwise, you're giving up 1-3% discount. Set auto-pay on your credit card to pay in full every month. I've never once paid for credit card interest. I think there's a term inside credit card companies for people like me: leeches or something like that.

I paid a lot of credit card interest, as a yute, but, since getting married, I have paid in full. Been over 30 years. Leeches rule! At one time, credit card companies forced vendors to charge the same, whether cash or credit, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. The problem is, is that cash is becoming less and less acceptable. In a nearby town, you can't pay for parking, with cash. I have seen credit-card-o…

Credit cards are cheaper than cash for most merchants. Most people forget about all the costs of cash because they are hidden, but they add up to more than the couple % credit cards cost.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#126
post #99
post #31

Credit cards also transfer wealth from people who pay interest to people who don’t. It’s a silly system, where everyone has to invest their time (optimizing for rewards, avoiding interest) in an ultimately negative sum game. I hate it so much.

I don't have to invest any time at all. I just use the (US) card that gives me the greatest benefits, be it cash back or services. Usually I just look at the reward rate, which is a base 2% for me right now going up to 5% for some things. I love it. As someone who never carries a balance I get paid by banks for doing pretty much nothing at all. And I don't worry about US retailers, I don't live there. I should add th…

Imagine a world where the pipeline from extra fees back to hoop-hopping cashback didn't exist and your services were just cheaper by the same percentage points instead. It's designed to make money off people slipping up instead of serving customers.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#127
post #49
post #7

Important context: this is US thing. EU capped interchange fees at 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit cards. So in US card processing is x5-x10 more expensive.

How does it work if I have a US credit card and use it abroad? Do I still get the kickback even though the merchant fee is capped? This feels like a potential arbitrage opportunity... I live in Sweden, but if I can use a US credit card I can get high rewards?

At least in Finland merchant contracts often specify higher rates for non-EU cards.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#128
post #58
post #31

Credit cards also transfer wealth from people who pay interest to people who don’t. It’s a silly system, where everyone has to invest their time (optimizing for rewards, avoiding interest) in an ultimately negative sum game. I hate it so much.

It has no relation to paying interest, only to making transactions with the credit card.

The relationship is that the service and rewards you get are subsidised by generally poorer people who mess up their financial planning.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#129
post #31

Credit cards also transfer wealth from people who pay interest to people who don’t. It’s a silly system, where everyone has to invest their time (optimizing for rewards, avoiding interest) in an ultimately negative sum game. I hate it so much.

I'm 46. I've never had a credit card. I have a bank account and a debit card. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it. You can just opt out of using credit cards.

Whole Europe does this.

I never understood why whole nation wants to live in debt just to have one extra month of cash flow (which they’ll probably squander soon).

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is literally no time involved in avoiding interest. You pay your complete balance when it's due. As far as rewards go, I can't be bothered with them so I always just opt for cash back which I do maybe twice a year. Time involved: 5 minutes / 6 mo.

There's plenty of time: the time you waste by not spending money you don't have. You have to wait longer until you make more money in order to spend more without interest.

Don't spend money you don't have. Especially don't do it with 20% interest short-term loans. It's not that hard. If you're not financially responsible enough to handle a credit card, do not get one. I didn't have one until my late 20s.
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