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How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

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Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#61
Patio11 covered this exact topic: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/credit-card-r...

It's clearly more complex than the story these authors are telling, in particular the highest income consumers get the worst returns on their interchange payments. So stores and services catering to wealthy consumers are actually subsidizing an opportunity for savvy customers, many of whom are not wealthy

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#62
post #58
post #31

Credit cards also transfer wealth from people who pay interest to people who don’t. It’s a silly system, where everyone has to invest their time (optimizing for rewards, avoiding interest) in an ultimately negative sum game. I hate it so much.

It has no relation to paying interest, only to making transactions with the credit card.

If you use a credit card, but can’t pay it immediately then you pay interest. It’s a trap the less wealthy fall into.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#64

> Because merchants charge everyone the same price regardless of how they pay, those fee costs are factored into prices for all shoppers. However, credit card users get that money back and then some through rewards, while cash and debit users get little or nothing. >The result: People paying cash face the equivalent of a 26% higher sales tax than premium credit card users shopping at the same store. I am surprised th…

It also means stratifying card users, even if you actually make all the card users pay more than those with cash. The people who can just barely qualify for a card are paying to fund the "rewards" for the wealthy who pick the best options.

"It's expensive to be poor" is a more or less universal experience under capitalism and it's amazing how many novel ways we've come up with to make it more expensive for poor people.

"Means testing" is one of the fun ones. The wealthy will often justify this as "People like me shouldn't get this help" which sounds even generous, and then you realise, oh, because we're testing if you're worthy to receive help now to get help you need to expend some time and effort to pass the test. When this "I shouldn't get benefits" is offered to you as a reason to means test, ask them why they're taking a benefit they don't think they should have and why they can't pay society back in other ways rather than inflict more misery on the poor...

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#65
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has no relation to paying interest, only to making transactions with the credit card.

If you use a credit card, but can’t pay it immediately then you pay interest. It’s a trap the less wealthy fall into.

Yes that is true, and what I said is also true.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many restaurants I’ve eaten at lately surcharge credit cards with a 3% fee, offering a discount if you pay cash. This is the way to nullify this regressive policy until the US commercial banking system offers instant payments for merchants, internalizing the externality of the interchange fee. If you pay with card, you US FedNow instant payments went live three years ago, and can move $10M per transaction for a few p…

Not only would the 3% fee not make me blink, as my cards have 3% cash back for dining, I doubt I'd change my behavior even at a 5% discount. If anything it'd dissuade me slightly from patronizing the restaurant. Credit cards are convenient and cash isn't. The genie is out of the bottle, no way to make people move back to cash.

You're not the avg person though. Most people are being squeezed by inflation and watching prices on everything and trying to claw an extra 2-3% back wherever they can.

If interchange fees were capped, people would go back to cash, imo. A lot of research shows you spend less when you pay with cash. And the lack of credit card rewards as a draw might lead people to carry it again

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#67
post #7

Important context: this is US thing. EU capped interchange fees at 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit cards. So in US card processing is x5-x10 more expensive.

How generous are credit card rewards in the EU?

In the UK (which broadly follows the same rules), I get 0.25% with a Visa and 1.25% with Amex. Sometimes there are introductory offers for a few months.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#68
post #31

Credit cards also transfer wealth from people who pay interest to people who don’t. It’s a silly system, where everyone has to invest their time (optimizing for rewards, avoiding interest) in an ultimately negative sum game. I hate it so much.

countries ditching those companies are making themselves a favour.

Re: How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer

#70

> Because merchants charge everyone the same price regardless of how they pay, those fee costs are factored into prices for all shoppers. However, credit card users get that money back and then some through rewards, while cash and debit users get little or nothing. >The result: People paying cash face the equivalent of a 26% higher sales tax than premium credit card users shopping at the same store. I am surprised th…

I believe a similar thing happened with fast food and food delivery fees. It costs money to be listed on the food delivery app so fast food chains started charging everyone the same price to offset the cost of being listed on the apps.

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