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Why some US restaurants are banning tips

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Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually not. In my state and others, when a business is designated as accepting tips, the workers can be paid less than minimum wage, while expecting that the tips they collect will make up for it. So it’s really a way to extort good tips from customers, because it’s understood that our gratuities are the only way they can make minimum wage!

In every state I am aware of employers are required to gross up to minimum wage if tips fall short. Yours is likely the same.

A friend in Southern California worked for a restaurant in Disneyland. Her employer calculated what they felt each waitstaff should have earned and had all of them pay up for sub-tips go cooks and busboys. Refusal to do so was grounds for termination. She had several days where the end of the shift had her net pay her employer due to non or low tipping that day.

That was grossing up for her. Illegal? Likely. "But they have laws against that" - low wage employees are easily taken advantage of. They often _need_ that job.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#132
post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

As far as I understand this is broken incentive system. Waiter can rarely make restaurant experience better - food is dependent on the kitchen - and it only worse make it worse - bad attitude, spitting in food etc. So from customer PoV, it makes no sense to pay percentage of the good as a compensation for the good. This model works where there is some risk associated - like if you sell a house, or do some legal counselling. But tips as a percentage of the bill makes no sense to me - waiter has no contribution in me ordering steak or salad. The offer, from waiter, to order something cheaper could be more tip-worthy service than alternative. Therefore, compensation as % of turnover should be Restaurant managers' concern and not the customers' problem.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#133

> The people breaking their backs and minds in the kitchen - often the least visible and the least celebrated - were taking home a fraction of what the front staff made on tips for the same hours Why not put all tips into a pool and just share it out between everyone?

This is what many restaurants do in my country. It's fair but it creates many issues. How you split it, who decides that, and there is always someone that is suspect of stealing.

Another issue is that if Americans tip, then you start to expect tipping from everyone make the experience more expensive and worst from anyone else.

PS. I don't own a restaurant or work at one, but I have friends that do both.I live in Greece, that counts also as "Europe" I guess

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#134

I always thought "paying" your staff via tips was primarily a tax dodge. Yes, the staff are supposed to declare all their untraceable cash income, but...yeah. So at least some of that income is untaxed, meaning higher net for same gross, meaning total prices even including tip can be lower.

These days it's mostly by card anyway though, isn't it?

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white h…

I could say the same about US restaurants. I want to socialise with the people I'm sharing the meal with, not some random waiter. The servers are constantly interrupting, ruining the mood and you feel unwelcome like they want to get you out the door the moment your plate is empty (because that's exactly what they want). It's like being on a conveyor belt.

The waiter comes by about twice in a visit, asks you "Is there anything you need?". You say "No thanks". And you get upset by that. And then you complain about Americans and their terrible ways. What sense does that make? Can't you see how rude you are? The person simply came by to check, since that person is your waiter and the goal is that you have a tasty and pleasant time.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#137
post #72
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. What POS terminals are common there? I am curious about culture spreading through technology defaults and wonder if it's effectively driven by whatever Square chose and whomever else decided to ape the incumbent or whatever.

You them everywhere. Most insane are the bars where you have to walk up from your seating to the bar to order, the bartender plops the drinks on the bar and immediately moves on to another customer, and the terminal still displays default tip amounts and you have to do custom → €0. What the hell am I tipping you for? At this point I'm waiting for supermarket self-checkout to add a default tip amount.

Self service checkout in some airport shops do have tip option already, unfortunately

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#138
post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

> Instead of checking on the customer every few minutes

This is likely one of the absolute worst features of the US dining system.

So many times I have been sitting in deep conversation with friends or colleagues just for a waiter to claim all attention to ask if we want to have refilled water.

That they can even push themselves to such rude behavior is entirely insane to me.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#139

Good. Tipping creates so much mental overhead and unnecessary bad feelings on everyone's part.

You're telling on yourself.

Most people I know are happy to leave a tip - especially to reward great service as part of a great night, or in cases where you have a long term relationship with an establishment and its staff.

I can only imagine the staff is likewise happy to see the nice tip from us at the end of the night.

If you can only imagine "unnecessary bad feelings" - I can only imagine the tip you leave and how the staff feels about you. If you are so poor, you won't enjoy the price hike either and if you are not poor then just tip properly and move on.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#140
I'm from New York City and I've lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina, since 2006. I go back and forth between the two cities every year, and I can unequivocally say they couldn't be any more different when it comes to service. I'd say both locations expose extremes on opposite sides of the spectrum. In New York City, there's a burning need to turn tables and seats over as fast as possible, which really sucks for the customer experience. However, their service efficiency—especially when you're in a rush in a place like NYC—does have its benefits. Can you simply hang out and people-watch, or have a deep conversation with a friend without feeling pressured to leave, order something else, or be constantly interrupted every five fucking minutes? Nope. In Argentina, tipping is not part of the culture. Socialism from back in the Perón days still lingers, although it's quickly changing now under the new government. Mentally speaking, though, employees feel entitled to do the least amount of work possible once their three-month grace period ends. They walk around the restaurant or bar with a "cara de culo" (literally "ass face"), sending you a clear message: Don't even bother me. You're not worth my time. I have zero incentive to make you a happy customer or make you want to come back. However, if you become a regular, they warm up to you—especially if you ask their name, tell them yours, take the time to ask about their life, and share a bit about yourself. About ten years ago, when the Venezuelan immigration wave hit, almost 50% of establishments quickly replaced their workers with happier Venezuelan immigrants who were cheaper and much more grateful for their jobs. For the first time, the industry finally had cheerful servers and staff, a change that was pleasantly welcomed by both business owners and customers. My feeling is that there should be a happy medium somewhere in between, though I'm not entirely sure what that is. I like the gesture of tipping, and as a business owner, I like providing incentives and meaning to my staff. In the end, though, this seems to be a deeply embedded cultural quirk that starts when you're a child learning how to relate to other children and adults. Personally, I prefer the laid-back Argentine style. I can sit down at any table in a café and enjoy five to ten minutes just to decompress, without someone immediately getting in my face to take my order. I need time to unwind. I need time to peruse the menu and check my Instagram feed. I need time—not everything is "time is money." I also need time after finishing a meal to take it all in, maybe journal a bit, notice my surroundings, and be in the present moment without any pressure to leave. Hell, if I want to open my laptop and keep working for another two hours, it's no problem—I'll just order another beverage. I get it. For me, this city moves at a much more natural, human pace than any other city I've ever lived in. Ping me if you're in the barrio!
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