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Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#121

Post by shafyy »

srean wrote: post #84
suriyaG wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

Yes I don't get it why milk is considered more ethically sound than eggs in my country. Milk is stolen baby food extracted industrially under not so nice conditions. Precision-Fermented (animal-Free) milk does exist but it is not easily available. Unfertilized eggs are products that come out anyway and cannot become a chick till it is successfully fertilized outside of the hen. Granted that these two are extracted in…

> Waiting for good lab grown meat to become cheap.

This is a cop out. There are plenty of excellent plant-based meat alternatives that I'm sure you couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#122

Post by jdkdb76 »

kakacik wrote: post #110
suriyaG wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level this is such a... wrong conclusion to make from the study. the study has found a correlation and by no means is it a causation. there are so many cultural, societal reasons for this to be the case. (eg. in india, upper caste people are usually vegetarians who generally have more acc…

Dude, most of India are vegetarians. If you have seen the sanitary conditions for storing meat (or at least in 2008/2010 when I backpacked around the country), you would also become one. I certainly did. Curries with meat were more expensive than vegetable ones in every dhaba. The bonus of not having to pick tiny pieces of meat from heap of chicken bones was a nice bonus (since touching food with hands was generally…

Thats more about the variety of vegetables, pulses, spices etc all naturally growing there compared to other regions.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#123

Post by thesz »

BatFastard wrote: post #4

I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.

  > I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.
Our skin cells communicate in a neuron-like fashion, albeit much more slowly: https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-found-the-silent-scr...

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#124

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

47635274172635 wrote: post #67
bayganyo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.

Farm animals wouldn't even have existed in the first place if it wasn't for farming them. They wouldn't have experienced their life at all. I personally think hunting is horrible, that's going after something that is alive without you having a say in it. But say for farmed cows, living in a field for a while, that's better than not existing at all. You cannot judge if it's worth it from the cow's perspective, it got…

Peter Singer, father of the animal liberation movement, also now says that farming animals for food but giving them a good life "may be permissible":

More radically, Singer suggested that meat-eating may be permissible if “farms really give the animals good lives, and then humanely kill them, preferably without transporting them to slaughterhouses or disturbing them. In Animal Liberation, I don’t really say that it’s the killing that makes [meat-eating] wrong, it’s the suffering.”

https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2021/05/peter-singer-why-...

Full disclosure: I have profound disagreements with Singer's utilitarian philosophy.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#125

Post by Modified3019 »

mc32 wrote: post #52
slowin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Octopus is the only animal I've ever stopped eating due to ethical concerns (not that I'm against examining my relationship with other animals). That being said, it's really delicious if you get it fresh. It just so happens that it's very rare (in the US) to get fresh octopus. I liked tako nigiri and grilled octopus, Mediterranean style. The taste and texture difference between fresh and not fresh is huge though. Pro…

Some people enjoy eating live baby octopuses. To me that is an odd delicacy -but then some Americans like shucking Oysters too, so I can't be critical.

On the context of ethics, oysters are probably the safest thing from the animal kingdom to eat. They’re really the closest thing we have to a meat based plant. Many who consider themselves vegan have no issues wasting them.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#126

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

verisimi wrote: post #97
47635274172635 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farm animals wouldn't even have existed in the first place if it wasn't for farming them. They wouldn't have experienced their life at all. I personally think hunting is horrible, that's going after something that is alive without you having a say in it. But say for farmed cows, living in a field for a while, that's better than not existing at all. You cannot judge if it's worth it from the cow's perspective, it got…

> You cannot judge if it's worth it from the cow's perspective, it got to live, enjoy the sun, eating in the field, doing cow stuff, same as us. Yep, same as us.

Except it's a cow, so not the same as us. I mean, presumably.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#127

Post by PowerElectronix »

slowin wrote: post #43
unethical_ban wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot judge too harshly, since I still eat many kinds of animal. However, I never ate octopus growing up, and I learned of their intelligence before I tried it more than a few times. It was easier to "never start" than to quit. And besides, octopus is not that great and if you insist on eating seafood I find pretty much any other item to have more enjoyable texture.

Octopus is the only animal I've ever stopped eating due to ethical concerns (not that I'm against examining my relationship with other animals). That being said, it's really delicious if you get it fresh. It just so happens that it's very rare (in the US) to get fresh octopus. I liked tako nigiri and grilled octopus, Mediterranean style. The taste and texture difference between fresh and not fresh is huge though. Pro…

I wanna say that despite being extremely intelligent for a mollusk, they are not intelligent at all compared with other animals like dophins, whales, etc, that not only can communicate with each other, but also develop a culture in their groups.

Octopus are smart for what they are, but not smart enough to think of them as being superior to pigs or cows intelligence-wise.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#128

Post by aziaziazi »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #120
aziaziazi wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read this as an information instead of an advice > cats, they are carnivores Carnivores eat (mostly) meat in the wild but thrive on a vegetal kibbles diet, granted they includes the right nutrients. I get the "non natural" intuition, however that's also the case for others kibbles - from the cheapest to the best ones. My veterinary recommendation: https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/ https://www.…

Your links go to pet food shops online that sell vegan food. How is that "veterinary recommendation"? Giving vegan food to cats is animal abuse. If you can't stand the idea of feeding other animals to a cat, don't keep a cat as a pet. Dogs can handle plant-based (but not vegan) diets much better. There are many other animals you could keep as a pet, also. E.g. goats are vegetarian and they have strong, interesting an…

> veterinary recommendation

Wrong wording, I updated it to "My veterinary recommendation".

> animal abuse

What makes you think so? Those kibbles allow happy and healthy cats while avoiding animal abuse to produce the non-vegetal kibbles. It sounds you can't stand the idea a cat thrive equally with mouses, beef/pork/tuna leftovers (+supplements) or soy/algae (+supplements), but you only provide recommendations without information to support your claim.

Benevo FAQ pages has responses to most interrogation one may have, including health and palatability: https://www.benevo.com/faq/

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#129

Post by srean »

shafyy wrote: post #121
srean wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I don't get it why milk is considered more ethically sound than eggs in my country. Milk is stolen baby food extracted industrially under not so nice conditions. Precision-Fermented (animal-Free) milk does exist but it is not easily available. Unfertilized eggs are products that come out anyway and cannot become a chick till it is successfully fertilized outside of the hen. Granted that these two are extracted in…

> Waiting for good lab grown meat to become cheap. This is a cop out. There are plenty of excellent plant-based meat alternatives that I'm sure you couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.

Could you point a few out ? I would be eager to try them out if they are available here in India.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#130

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

justacrow wrote: post #91
47635274172635 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on not having a realistic choice. The only person I personally know to successfully pull it off is an acquaintance that's rich by local standards, doesn't work, spends a lot of time sourcing and cooking it, and also eating it. He needs to eat more for same energy. It's so involved that most of his life revolves around it. It takes a good bit out of his time. The rest of the people from that friend group couldn'…

...just buy some beans/lentils and learn to cook those? It's not a herculean effort or particularly expensive.

Yes, and if you have such a care-free attitude towards a vegan diet you should expect to become deficient in all sorts of necessary nutrients.

Everyone who treats plant-based diets with any degree of responsibility will stress the need to plan them carefully, considering the needs of the individual and their stage of life, and to accompany them with supplements to make up for the nutrients that not even well-planned diets cannot provide.

For example, "Top Tips" from the British Dietary Association:

* Carefully planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life stage

* Plant-based diets can help to manage weight and may reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and other chronic diseases

* You can get all essential nutrients from plant foods but vegans need to ensure a reliable source of vitamin B12

* If excluding dairy, make sure you consume other calcium-rich foods

* Include a wide variety of plant-derived foods to ensure your diet is balanced and sustainable

https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based...

Far, far from "just buy some beans/lentils". TBH that's just irresponsible and dangerous advice.

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